Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

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tking3444
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Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby tking3444 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:31 pm

I’m not sure if this question has been answered in another post. I was wondering what would happen if I saw an active robbery, shooting, or other situation that warrants the use of deadly force and it was happening in a place with valid signs preventing my armed entry. Could I step in and intervene?

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Grundy1133
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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby Grundy1133 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:43 pm

id go with yes. but im not sure
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BBYC
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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby BBYC » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:48 pm

You can but you should respect their wishes and not help.
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Grundy1133
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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby Grundy1133 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:49 pm

BBYC wrote:You can but you should respect their wishes and not help.

:iagree:
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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby Abraham » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:50 pm

LTC does not equal LEO...

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mojo84
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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby mojo84 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 pm

It doesn't take being a LEO to be a good Samaritan and help someone in a bad or dangerous situation. I would also keep in mind there may be people at risk that had nothing to do with the decision to post 30.06 or 30.07 signs.

Everyone has to make up their own mind and do what their conscience and beliefs lead them to do.

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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby Grundy1133 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:55 pm

Abraham wrote:LTC does not equal LEO...

so if you had a kid at school where a shooting was going on and you were there waiting to pick him/her up you mean to tell me you wouldnt go in and try to neutralize the threat?
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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby C-dub » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:15 pm

IIRC, according to case law, necessity can overcome a restriction, but I would still expect an uphill battle. There may not end up being a legal battle over violating the restriction, but I think it will only depend on the prosecutor or whether or not some actually files the charges.
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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby STR8-SHOT » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:23 pm

CDub is on it with necessity. It’s the Doctrine of Competing Harms.

Previous thread discussion:
viewtopic.php?t=79507

Massad Ayoob also has a good explanation of this doctrine.

David

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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby E.Marquez » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:38 pm

I decided no... though it was not quite the scenario you laid out.
I was going past a military base and traffic was blocked due to a fatality accident. They were diverting traffic on to base in one gate, then out another a few miles away, but on what was a "public access" road civilians with proper ID were allowed to use. That said, federal laws and Army Regulations are still applicable.

That presented a problem for me, as I was armed.... Trooper said it was not an issue as I was flowing his directions....While true, he had no authority on the Federal property and could not give permission for me to bring a weapon on post..Nor can the gate guard, I was not guessing, I was the one who tasked thous guards not all that long ago.....

The Trooper got a bit frustrated with me as I was "refusing" his directives and being "difficult". I told him I appreciated he was just truing to deal with the issues at hand as efficiently as possible, but having spent 28 years in the Army, I was all to aware of things that took place not in the realm of common sense, but just the letter of the regulation.

He accepted that begrudgingly, went and spoke to another Trooper, not sure if it was someone senior or just a peer....came back and said he would guide me though the parked emergency vehicles to be on my way.. Seemed like a deal to me...

I am not a lawyer, I do not know if a federal magistrate could have really charged me or not.. but I did not want to find out..
No words or opinions I post in this forum are intended to be offensive to any member here.

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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:14 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:
BBYC wrote:You can but you should respect their wishes and not help.

:iagree:

I don't.
Chas.
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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby OldCurlyWolf » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:17 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
BBYC wrote:You can but you should respect their wishes and not help.

:iagree:

I don't.
Chas.

Which?
Respect their wishes or help?
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I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby rotor » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:32 pm

tking3444 wrote:I’m not sure if this question has been answered in another post. I was wondering what would happen if I saw an active robbery, shooting, or other situation that warrants the use of deadly force and it was happening in a place with valid signs preventing my armed entry. Could I step in and intervene?

Welcome to the forum. Yes you could step in but you would need to be prepared to face legal consequences if you did. Schools with children being shot at are different than a store with 30.06 sign that doesn't want your business. No definitive answer for you. The legal expenses will be yours though and even if you have some kind of prepaid legal it may not cover since you were trespassing. Sounds crazy but possible.

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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:36 pm

OldCurlyWolf wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
BBYC wrote:You can but you should respect their wishes and not help.

:iagree:

I don't.
Chas.

Which?
Respect their wishes or help?

The statement was "You can but you should respect their wishes and not help." Grundy1133's response was to agree with the statement, while mine was not to agree.

Chas.
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Re: Entering a “gun free zone” to stop or intervene during an active crime

Postby The Annoyed Man » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:45 pm

Here’s how I feel, and I’m willing to bet that a LOT of parents with kids in school feel the same way ......

If MY child were in that school, and there were no first responders there yet, but there was an armed citizen nearby in a position to render aid, and that citizen was having an internal debate about whether or not to go in and help, I would hope that he or she would choose to go in and help.
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