Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

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ELB
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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby ELB » Tue May 13, 2014 10:17 am

Adding "extras" to a procedure seems like a way to add points of failure. Plus, altho I nearly always have a flashlight on me, I don't carry a bathroom mirror around to all the places I have chamber-checked my pistol.

John Farnam taught me a way to do it to minimize any chance of getting my hand in front of the muzzle and that allows visual AND tactile feedback, so it works in the dark as well. I will stick with it.
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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby Abraham » Tue May 13, 2014 11:12 am

My Glock 19 has a loaded chamber indicator.

I use it.


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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby Austin83 » Fri May 16, 2014 2:50 pm

Abraham wrote:My Glock 19 has a loaded chamber indicator.

I use it.


I like the Glock indicator. You can feel it in the dark.

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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby thatguyoverthere » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:20 pm

I know this thread has been around for a while. And it has sort of morphed from the original topic, so I hope I will be forgiven for continuing that drift from the original topic, but I was wondering...

Talking about bullet setback from a round being repeatedly removed from the chamber, put back into the magazine, then racking the slide to put that same bullet back into the chamber. When I have to unload, then later reload that same round into the chamber, I don't put the bullet back into the magazine. With the magazine removed, I just point the gun down, lock the slide back and simply drop the bullet into the chamber, then release the slide.

This way, the bullet is already fully seated in the chamber when the slide closes, so there is no force that is trying to compress the bullet further into the shell casing as it is being transported from the magazine into the chamber. Then I slap the full magazine into place and I'm done.

Seems to work well for me, and I don't worry about setback. Am I missing something? Am I doing something stupid by doing it that way? :headscratch

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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby Javier730 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:42 pm

I just keep my gun without a round in the chamber and if anything goes down, I draw my pistol and rack the slide. It works in the movies. :biggrinjester:
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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby Beiruty » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:59 pm

all guns are loaded (or so you should assume) until "made" clear.
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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby G.A. Heath » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:29 pm

Or you can insert a straw into the chamber and close the action when they straw exits barrel.
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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby loktite » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:43 pm

thatguyoverthere wrote:I know this thread has been around for a while. And it has sort of morphed from the original topic, so I hope I will be forgiven for continuing that drift from the original topic, but I was wondering...

Talking about bullet setback from a round being repeatedly removed from the chamber, put back into the magazine, then racking the slide to put that same bullet back into the chamber. When I have to unload, then later reload that same round into the chamber, I don't put the bullet back into the magazine. With the magazine removed, I just point the gun down, lock the slide back and simply drop the bullet into the chamber, then release the slide.

This way, the bullet is already fully seated in the chamber when the slide closes, so there is no force that is trying to compress the bullet further into the shell casing as it is being transported from the magazine into the chamber. Then I slap the full magazine into place and I'm done.

Seems to work well for me, and I don't worry about setback. Am I missing something? Am I doing something stupid by doing it that way? :headscratch


Repeatedly doing this *can* damage the extractor on some guns, not to mention damage the lip on the round's casing. Some manuals explicitly say NOT to do this. When you allow the slide to go forward like that, it forces to extractor to slam into and go up and over the lip. I take a modified approach to this, and ride the slide slowling until it's pushing against the round. Tilt handgun up slightly, and barely pull the slide back (probably about 1/2 inch). By tilting the gun up, gravity will cause the round to fall slightly. The trick is to pull the slide back *just* enough so the lip on the case clears the extractor, then allow slide to go forward and into battery. This way you avoid setback, damage to extractor, and extra damage to case lip. As always, NO FINGER ON TRIGGER!
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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby Scott B. » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:14 am

Repeatedly doing this *can* damage the extractor on some guns, not to mention damage the lip on the round's casing.


This type of damage gets a mention during the Glock armorer's class.
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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby GeekwithaGun » Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:56 am

I rotate the rounds - after clearing, cleaning, or shooting at the range - the round from the chamber goes into the magazine after taking one or two out of the magazine first. I hope this reduces the chances of the setback issue from repeated loading/unloading of the same round. I'll usually shoot my self defense rounds at the range and replace what I shoot. I'll also rotate my spare mag with what is carried in the gun.

lots of options - YMMV :tiphat:
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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby thatguyoverthere » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:16 pm

loktite wrote:
thatguyoverthere wrote:I know this thread has been around for a while. And it has sort of morphed from the original topic, so I hope I will be forgiven for continuing that drift from the original topic, but I was wondering...

Talking about bullet setback from a round being repeatedly removed from the chamber, put back into the magazine, then racking the slide to put that same bullet back into the chamber. When I have to unload, then later reload that same round into the chamber, I don't put the bullet back into the magazine. With the magazine removed, I just point the gun down, lock the slide back and simply drop the bullet into the chamber, then release the slide.

This way, the bullet is already fully seated in the chamber when the slide closes, so there is no force that is trying to compress the bullet further into the shell casing as it is being transported from the magazine into the chamber. Then I slap the full magazine into place and I'm done.

Seems to work well for me, and I don't worry about setback. Am I missing something? Am I doing something stupid by doing it that way? :headscratch


Repeatedly doing this *can* damage the extractor on some guns, not to mention damage the lip on the round's casing. Some manuals explicitly say NOT to do this. When you allow the slide to go forward like that, it forces to extractor to slam into and go up and over the lip. I take a modified approach to this, and ride the slide slowling until it's pushing against the round. Tilt handgun up slightly, and barely pull the slide back (probably about 1/2 inch). By tilting the gun up, gravity will cause the round to fall slightly. The trick is to pull the slide back *just* enough so the lip on the case clears the extractor, then allow slide to go forward and into battery. This way you avoid setback, damage to extractor, and extra damage to case lip. As always, NO FINGER ON TRIGGER!


Ahhh... I had noticed some small nicks on the lip of the bullet casing, but just assumed that was where the ejector was pulling it out (which it may be that, too). But I didn't look closely enough at the round to really notice which side of the lip the nicks were on. Consequently, I never considered ejector damage/wear from it having to ride up over the bullet lip. I'll take a closer look at that, and will consider your method. Thanks for sharing the good info. :thumbs2:


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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby Eric Lamberson » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:32 pm

One solution to this problem is to rotate your chambered rounds through the magazine. Once you chamber the next round, unload the magazine, reload it with the round that you eject being the first into the magazine. Keep rotating and twice a year go to the range, shoot the ammo you have been carrying, and load fresh ammunition.
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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby KFP » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:44 pm

It's alive!

I do still use this method over the press check. My process for my carry guns is to clean, insert mag with one round, chamber, remove /verify empty mag, insert a full mag and store in the safe. My main carry gun (90%+) resides in its' holster nearly all the time. Mirror/light technique is used when the other carry guns that come out of the safe - nearly all have open muzzle design holsters that allow the gun's status to be check while still holstered.

The press check takes the pistol out of battery (have to verify that the slide is fully seated after), increases potential for bullet setback, and introduces unnecessary handling of the pistol outside of the holster. People often sweep themselves during the process as well.

The whole point is to verify that the gun is loaded. I may see the value of the press check in a firefight, but I don't see it as a better means of verifying that the gun is loaded each day/each time you swap carry guns, etc.

Edited to add: Loaded chamber indicators are great...I just don't trust them.
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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby treadlightly » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:01 pm

I think dropping the slide without it doing the work of moving a cartridge causes it to bang harder than it should. I never drop the slide without feeding a round.

It's also a good idea to use your carry ammo. When I go to the range, the first shots I fire are the carry loads. Then I load up with fresh defensive ammo.

The gun can play a big role in how damaging it is. I like my Kahr PM9, but the manual says the only way to chamber a round is to drop the slide without your hand on it.

My Sig P320 would probably chamber a round without its recoil spring. I can close the action slowly and it feeds perfectly. Actually, make that either of my P320's. The full size was so much fun and the conversion kits were so hard to come by, I bought a subcompact, too.

7075-T7 wrote:
I usually just look down the barrel....


"rlol"


I hope not to verify that it is loaded! That "how to" tip wouldn't help out very much.


Indeed! One should only look down the barrel to ensure its unloaded! "rlol"

I hope that's interpreted as humor. Of course, no one should do that. Ever.

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Re: Additional Step to Ensure Loaded/Unloaded Status

Postby CleverNickname » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:17 pm

Abraham wrote:My Glock 19 has a loaded chamber indicator.

I use it.

With Glocks you can just look at the gun when the slide is down and still see a bit of brass through the ejection port.

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