Distressed about lack of Constitutional Carry Support (Long)

[Tex1961]

I've only been a LTC Instructor for 6 months now, but I have managed to snag a decent contract position with a national carry organization. They started out in Texas as an Online course provider only and then contracted local instructors to administer the live fire portion. Since then they are now offering full in person classes. Since I've hired on with them I average on any given weekend anywhere from 10 to 30 students at the range. Following is just pure fact and statistics as I have experienced in the last month alone.

20 to 25% failure rate on the range. I average 2 to 3 students out of 10 who fail their proficiency test. Everything from simply not scoring enough points on the target to simply not able to operate their firearm. I have seen everything from trying to load ammo in the magazines backwards, inserting mags backwards, unable to remove magazines because they don't know where the mag release is, unable to rack the slide and the list goes on. Last weekend alone I had to ask 2 students to please leave the range due to being a danger to themselves or others. I get at least 2 students per weekend who have to rent a gun at the range to take their test because they don't have one, students who have NEVER held a gun in their life trying to qualify...

About a week before each class I send out a long email with information on what to bring, etc, etc.. The bulk of my email is just explaining that this is a proficiency test, NOT a handgun training class. I also offer private lessons if they need them before the class. Apparently most don't read the email or just assume their going to pick that gun up for the very first time and pass... Most don't..

The demographics are across the chart, young, old, black, brown, white, Asian. Male, Female. Blue collar, white collar, professional... And yes. I do see trends especially with those that are failing. Many in my class especially female are scared and want to protect themselves. But most have absolutly no clue how to handle a gun, let alone be safe with one.

I'm not going to get in the middle of this debate on sides, but I will tell you I absolutely believe in 2A and no restrictions on our fundamental right to keep and bear arms... I am simply relaying my personal experience as a instructor and individual... Take what you will from my post...

One last thing, and this isn't fact.. This is my personal observations here on the forum... While I believe most and I do mean MOST members do a great job on calmly discussing issues and even disagreeing with each other on a friendly basis, I get why some here are hesitant to post anything that doesn't fit in with the general population... They get attacked.. and some are rude, mean and just plain vicious.... Many claim they want a discussion.. No they don't they want to attack because someone disagreed with them... I've had opposite views on posts over the last few years that I've been a member but I've not dared to voice those because I'm going to get attacked, even private messages where members have attacked me... Some pretty mean private messages as well. So NOPE, I try to say as low key as I can....

I'm even sure I'll get some pushback from this post. I hope not as I'm only relaying what I'm seeing and experiencing....

[Middle Age Russ]

Its not a bad thing at all. Question is where do you draw the line on what is legal? If I could legally possess an M60 would you feel comfortable with me carrying it around in public? The law might say I can but the public might have a problem with it. I've got no problem with cc but most people don't have since enough to come in out of the rain and I don't want to be around if they have a gun.

The enumerated Right in the Second Amendment does not draw a line, and I would also not draw a line, in general, for the People. If I were to draw a line it would not be related to hardware or method of bearing the arms (carry). If there is a legal line to be drawn regarding natural rights, it begins with behavior of individuals that leads to a legal loss of at least some of their rights. When individuals act in a wantonly irresponsible manner, or with malice to cause bodily harm to others, and they are found guilty of committing these crimes, some of their Rights are forfeit. Why should criminal laws concerning (presumed responsible) ownership or carrying of anything even exist??

[Paladin]

I've only been a LTC Instructor for 6 months now, but I have managed to snag a decent contract position with a national carry organization. They started out in Texas as an Online course provider only and then contracted local instructors to administer the live fire portion. Since then they are now offering full in person classes. Since I've hired on with them I average on any given weekend anywhere from 10 to 30 students at the range. Following is just pure fact and statistics as I have experienced in the last month alone.

20 to 25% failure rate on the range. I average 2 to 3 students out of 10 who fail their proficiency test. Everything from simply not scoring enough points on the target to simply not able to operate their firearm. I have seen everything from trying to load ammo in the magazines backwards, inserting mags backwards, unable to remove magazines because they don't know where the mag release is, unable to rack the slide and the list goes on. Last weekend alone I had to ask 2 students to please leave the range due to being a danger to themselves or others. I get at least 2 students per weekend who have to rent a gun at the range to take their test because they don't have one, students who have NEVER held a gun in their life trying to qualify...

About a week before each class I send out a long email with information on what to bring, etc, etc.. The bulk of my email is just explaining that this is a proficiency test, NOT a handgun training class. I also offer private lessons if they need them before the class. Apparently most don't read the email or just assume their going to pick that gun up for the very first time and pass... Most don't..

The demographics are across the chart, young, old, black, brown, white, Asian. Male, Female. Blue collar, white collar, professional... And yes. I do see trends especially with those that are failing. Many in my class especially female are scared and want to protect themselves. But most have absolutly no clue how to handle a gun, let alone be safe with one.

I'm not going to get in the middle of this debate on sides, but I will tell you I absolutely believe in 2A and no restrictions on our fundamental right to keep and bear arms... I am simply relaying my personal experience as a instructor and individual... Take what you will from my post...

One last thing, and this isn't fact.. This is my personal observations here on the forum... While I believe most and I do mean MOST members do a great job on calmly discussing issues and even disagreeing with each other on a friendly basis, I get why some here are hesitant to post anything that doesn't fit in with the general population... They get attacked.. and some are rude, mean and just plain vicious.... Many claim they want a discussion.. No they don't they want to attack because someone disagreed with them... I've had opposite views on posts over the last few years that I've been a member but I've not dared to voice those because I'm going to get attacked, even private messages where members have attacked me... Some pretty mean private messages as well. So NOPE, I try to say as low key as I can....

I'm even sure I'll get some pushback from this post. I hope not as I'm only relaying what I'm seeing and experiencing....

[Jusme]

I understand the views of those both, in favor of, and those opposed to Constitutional carry. ( Well not those who simply don’t believe Americans should be armed under any circumstance) I too have seen a lot of people who should not be turned loose with a gun, due to lack of any training. However, I am vehemently opposed to mandated training to exercise their 2A right. Simply because there is no government mandated training to exercise any other Constitutional right.
When the Constitution was ratified, it was taken for granted, that parents, would teach their children, how to use firearms. With the breakdown of the family unit, the urbanization, of the majority of the population, and decades of vilifying gun ownership, that “home training” doesn’t exist.
Now that more people are looking to be responsible for their own safety, their is a huge gap, in knowledge about the safe utilization of firearms.
I know that all members here have done a lot to help train their own family members, obtain training for themselves, and continue, to maintain at least a modicum of proficiency.

There will always be those who do none of these things, whether they are LTC holders or not. But there are also a lot of people who vote without doing any research into the candidates. People who exercise their right of free speech to espouse things that are abhorrent to decent people.
Some will say that speaking, and voting never caused a death, but the survivors of the Holocaust, or even family members of those killed in Viet Nam, may disagree.

My point is, we can hope and pray that everyone will exercise their rights responsibly, but we cannot withhold them, due to those who do not do so. JMHO

[chasfm11]

There will always be those who do none of these things, whether they are LTC holders or not. But there are also a lot of people who vote without doing any research into the candidates. People who exercise their right of free speech to espouse things that are abhorrent to decent people.

My point is, we can hope and pray that everyone will exercise their rights responsibly, but we cannot withhold them, due to those who do not do so. JMHO

This. I work elections and I cringe at how unprepared people are to vote when they show up at the polls. I would really like to sent them home to do some more homework. But they are exercising their right to cast a ballot and neither I nor anyone like me should stand in their way. I feel the same about firearms.

[cirus]

I've only been a LTC Instructor for 6 months now, but I have managed to snag a decent contract position with a national carry organization. They started out in Texas as an Online course provider only and then contracted local instructors to administer the live fire portion. Since then they are now offering full in person classes. Since I've hired on with them I average on any given weekend anywhere from 10 to 30 students at the range. Following is just pure fact and statistics as I have experienced in the last month alone.

20 to 25% failure rate on the range. I average 2 to 3 students out of 10 who fail their proficiency test. Everything from simply not scoring enough points on the target to simply not able to operate their firearm. I have seen everything from trying to load ammo in the magazines backwards, inserting mags backwards, unable to remove magazines because they don't know where the mag release is, unable to rack the slide and the list goes on. Last weekend alone I had to ask 2 students to please leave the range due to being a danger to themselves or others. I get at least 2 students per weekend who have to rent a gun at the range to take their test because they don't have one, students who have NEVER held a gun in their life trying to qualify...

About a week before each class I send out a long email with information on what to bring, etc, etc.. The bulk of my email is just explaining that this is a proficiency test, NOT a handgun training class. I also offer private lessons if they need them before the class. Apparently most don't read the email or just assume their going to pick that gun up for the very first time and pass... Most don't..

The demographics are across the chart, young, old, black, brown, white, Asian. Male, Female. Blue collar, white collar, professional... And yes. I do see trends especially with those that are failing. Many in my class especially female are scared and want to protect themselves. But most have absolutly no clue how to handle a gun, let alone be safe with one.

I'm not going to get in the middle of this debate on sides, but I will tell you I absolutely believe in 2A and no restrictions on our fundamental right to keep and bear arms... I am simply relaying my personal experience as a instructor and individual... Take what you will from my post...

One last thing, and this isn't fact.. This is my personal observations here on the forum... While I believe most and I do mean MOST members do a great job on calmly discussing issues and even disagreeing with each other on a friendly basis, I get why some here are hesitant to post anything that doesn't fit in with the general population... They get attacked.. and some are rude, mean and just plain vicious.... Many claim they want a discussion.. No they don't they want to attack because someone disagreed with them... I've had opposite views on posts over the last few years that I've been a member but I've not dared to voice those because I'm going to get attacked, even private messages where members have attacked me... Some pretty mean private messages as well. So NOPE, I try to say as low key as I can....

I'm even sure I'll get some pushback from this post. I hope not as I'm only relaying what I'm seeing and experiencing....

[TxRVer]

There will always be those who do none of these things, whether they are LTC holders or not. But there are also a lot of people who vote without doing any research into the candidates. People who exercise their right of free speech to espouse things that are abhorrent to decent people.

My point is, we can hope and pray that everyone will exercise their rights responsibly, but we cannot withhold them, due to those who do not do so. JMHO

This. I work elections and I cringe at how unprepared people are to vote when they show up at the polls. I would really like to sent them home to do some more homework. But they are exercising their right to cast a ballot and neither I nor anyone like me should stand in their way. I feel the same about firearms.

They can do more damage with a vote than with a gun.

[03Lightningrocks]

There will always be those who do none of these things, whether they are LTC holders or not. But there are also a lot of people who vote without doing any research into the candidates. People who exercise their right of free speech to espouse things that are abhorrent to decent people.

My point is, we can hope and pray that everyone will exercise their rights responsibly, but we cannot withhold them, due to those who do not do so. JMHO

This. I work elections and I cringe at how unprepared people are to vote when they show up at the polls. I would really like to sent them home to do some more homework. But they are exercising their right to cast a ballot and neither I nor anyone like me should stand in their way. I feel the same about firearms.

[crazy2medic]

Constitutional Carry scheduled for a vote in Senate?

[Papa_Tiger]

Constitutional Carry scheduled for a vote in Senate?

Scheduled for a public hearing in the Senate on 4/29

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/s ... 909001.HTM

[crazy2medic]

Thank You

[Liberty]

The only problem i have with constitutional carry is this. Several years ago while my wife and I were taking our chl class I observed 2 women on the line that could not load there own mags or chamber a round in their gun. They had no experience whatsoever. The worse part was the instructor helped them load the mags and chamber a round . That's the problem I have . I don't believe you should be required to have a license but should have to have some firearms training to show you know how to operate a handgun. Like hunters education. Just a one time class. Most the people I come across in everyday life don't instill me with confidence. Most are brainless zombies staring at their cell phones oblivious to their surroundings. That's why we have more car wrecks now. If the decision came down constitutional carry with no limitations vs. no constitutional carry at all I'll take it anyway I can get it. Let her rip!

I don't believe that the capability of being able to rack or load magazines is that critical. My wife has a difficult time racking my Ruger P95, yet she shoots it quite well. Her hands are small and arthritic, and the p95 is not easy to pull back the slide. She does not choose carry other than in her car, but that's her choice. She is safe and understands the rules of self defense.

[Flightmare]

At the end of the day....I don't think ANYONE disagrees with the idea of people getting training.

Many here (myself included) disagree with the idea of it being a requirement in order to exercise a constitutionally protected right.

The best explanation of my opposition to government requirements is this; government can always change those requirements.
By controlling the requirements, they control who DOES and does not have the liberty to exercise those rights.

Again, training is not a bad thing. I think everyone SHOULD get some training. I just don't think it should be the government's job to mandate what that training is.

[AndyC1911]

20 to 25% failure rate on the range. I average 2 to 3 students out of 10 who fail their proficiency test. Everything from simply not scoring enough points on the target to simply not able to operate their firearm. I have seen everything from trying to load ammo in the magazines backwards, inserting mags backwards, unable to remove magazines because they don't know where the mag release is, unable to rack the slide and the list goes on. Last weekend alone I had to ask 2 students to please leave the range due to being a danger to themselves or others. I get at least 2 students per weekend who have to rent a gun at the range to take their test because they don't have one, students who have NEVER held a gun in their life trying to qualify...

I'm glad you fail them. People want the plastic without putting in the slightest amount of work - nuh-uh.

While I want Constitutional Carry, I'm aware that it means we'll have a lot of incompetents wandering around.

[Soccerdad1995]

There will always be those who do none of these things, whether they are LTC holders or not. But there are also a lot of people who vote without doing any research into the candidates. People who exercise their right of free speech to espouse things that are abhorrent to decent people.

My point is, we can hope and pray that everyone will exercise their rights responsibly, but we cannot withhold them, due to those who do not do so. JMHO

This. I work elections and I cringe at how unprepared people are to vote when they show up at the polls. I would really like to sent them home to do some more homework. But they are exercising their right to cast a ballot and neither I nor anyone like me should stand in their way. I feel the same about firearms.

They can do more damage with a vote than with a gun.

It's really difficult to overthrow our entire system of government, even with alot of armed people. But the libs may just be able to do that with the results of the last election.