Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

[LarryH]

Doug --

IMHO, when the owner of the forum asks you politely, three times, to cease and desist, you should cease and desist (assuming, of course, you want to remain a member of this forum).

Charles has an objective and a vision for this forum, and it doesn't include what you're talking about.

Many forums completely exclude both political and religious discussions, and for a very good reason. Discussion of those two subjects frequently lead to "impolite behavior", such as name-calling, profanity, threats, and the like, resulting in wide-spread hard feelings and dissension.

As has been mentioned, there are forums that welcome discussion of secession and similar topics. Charles has made it clear that this isn't one of them.

[Tactical_Texan_CHL]

5. Posts with racist, anarchist, or antisocial comments or content are not allowed and links to sites with such content are not allowed.

I'm not saying that you're being anarchist Doug, but it walks a fine line, and could be construed that way by others. The off-topic section could be a fun and funny place if we let it, but it could also be deleted very easily, and we don't want that. We'd just like to keep the intergrity of this board intact. Like Charles said, anti's cruise boards just like we occasionally visit the Brady site. This board has actually done alot for the people here. It got a fair amount of new life members into the NRA recently, myself included, and provides loads of useful information. Please just let this subject die. We all understand and respect your opinion, and also realize that you're not the only one who shares that opinion. I think alot of us here would just like to keep this site as it was intended and not be dragged into the potential negatives of that kind of image. I appologize if this is offensive in any way, and it is most definitely not intended as a personal attack on you.

[Doug.38PR]

Of course I'm not advocating anarchy. I am talking about a legitimate political subject in American history and indeed world history. I am advocating it pimarily as a non-violent approach and check to problems.
I think it strange that y'all should find that inappropriate to the goal of the board but taglines like those of Commander Cody are perfectly acceptable.

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

quoted from Commander Cody's signature.

not a slam against Cody, but goodness, that sounds FAR more akin to promoting violence even if it is a quote from Jefferson

I mean if y'all are really worried about promoting a certain kind of image, well.....

I'm not going to pursue the secession discussion anymore if Mr. Cotton really doesn't want to, but I just think y'all's fears are little unjustified.

[Commander Cody]

Quote removed.

[stevie_d_64]

Before anyopne takes this wrong, I do happen to see (and more importantly understand) the sentiments of what Doug is saying here...But I agree that this place is not where this needs to be discussed...

If you go back and look at the "real" history of this state and this nation, you'll see that the Republic of Texas was literally courted, bribed and begged by the Polk administration to join the United States of America at that time, and that just the general assessment Ihave of all that was involved with that...

The enjoyable process of studying history is that you can read up all about it and those particular subjects and come up with some interesting personal analysis of those events...

And the one thing I get out of all of this secession stuff is that it would be damaging to both sides of the equation, insomuch that the strength of the entire nation is built upon the "union" of these states...One or more flying off for whatever reason is detrimental to everyone...

So it might be a good idea to put up with these challenges, try to keep those from occuring, and keep the union strong...No matter what...We've tried this secession thing once, and it was for some good reasons at the time, but today, it would not be a practical thing to do...Even though it might make a few people feel better...Present company excluded...

Our community of freedom minded citizens is much better than that...We understand the intricate sacrifices and challenges those before us have made, and we need to honor those sacrifices with as much vigor as they faced at that time in our history...

Secession is for the weak, and for those who do not wish to take on the challenge to keep us whole...

I am an American by birth, and a Native Texan by the grace of God, and if ever the need for me to stand on one side of a bridge against tyrrany, you can bet I'll be there...It is only by my understanding of those sacrifices in the past that keep me from dismissing the need for our strong union, that you couldn't keep me from protecting it...

We can keep it together...Its easier to do so than you think...

[Charles L. Cotton]

Quote removed.

There was nothing wrong with your quote. Feel free to put it back. Had there been a problem, I or one of the Moderators would have sent you a PM.

Chas.

[MoJo]

Before anyopne takes this wrong, I do happen to see (and more importantly understand) the sentiments of what Doug is saying here...But I agree that this place is not where this needs to be discussed...

If you go back and look at the "real" history of this state and this nation, you'll see that the Republic of Texas was literally courted, bribed and begged by the Polk administration to join the United States of America at that time, and that just the general assessment Ihave of all that was involved with that...

The enjoyable process of studying history is that you can read up all about it and those particular subjects and come up with some interesting personal analysis of those events...

And the one thing I get out of all of this secession stuff is that it would be damaging to both sides of the equation, insomuch that the strength of the entire nation is built upon the "union" of these states...One or more flying off for whatever reason is detrimental to everyone...

So it might be a good idea to put up with these challenges, try to keep those from occuring, and keep the union strong...No matter what...We've tried this secession thing once, and it was for some good reasons at the time, but today, it would not be a practical thing to do...Even though it might make a few people feel better...Present company excluded...

Our community of freedom minded citizens is much better than that...We understand the intricate sacrifices and challenges those before us have made, and we need to honor those sacrifices with as much vigor as they faced at that time in our history...

Secession is for the weak, and for those who do not wish to take on the challenge to keep us whole...

I am an American by birth, and a Native Texan by the grace of God, and if ever the need for me to stand on one side of a bridge against tyrrany, you can bet I'll be there...It is only by my understanding of those sacrifices in the past that keep me from dismissing the need for our strong union, that you couldn't keep me from protecting it...

We can keep it together...Its easier to do so than you think...

AMEN!

[Doug.38PR]

Steve_d_64

Secession is for the weak, and for those who do not wish to take on the challenge to keep us whole...

What does that say about the original 13 colonies that seceded from England?
What does that say about Texas?
What does that say about the 11 Southern States
What does that say about the many counties that once made up the Soviet Union
What does that say about Scotland throughout it's history has attempted to achieve it's independence from England?
What does that say about Taiwan?

We can keep it together...Its easier to do so than you think...

If we can do this, and return to the system that the Founding Fathers intended...I wish you would enlighten us as to how "easy" this is.
Otherwise...what's the point in being a part of a nation that only sucks away our liberties? If it is "to keep us united and strong" the price is too high.

Our community of freedom minded citizens is much better than that...We understand the intricate sacrifices and challenges those before us have made, and we need to honor those sacrifices with as much vigor as they faced at that time in our history...

This is part of the problem. We aren't a community of freedom minded citizens. Half the country isn't freedom minded. They want the government to take care of them (at the price of your liberty, heritage and wealth)
There is a reason we have "red staes" and "blue states" How much do you, as a Texan, feel you have in common with somebody out in Kalifornia or New York City?
But unfortunately, it's even deeper than that, most people, even in our individual states (especially the cities) aren't freedom minded, one half wants to mind their own business and live life as free men, the other half wants to live off the wealth of the other half and have the care and protection of the government. As a whole, most look at it as everything being fine as long as they have a wide screen TV, money in the bank, 24 doesn't get canceled and a 6 pack of beer is in the refrigerator.


Your basic argument stems from the Hobbsian idea that in order for there to be peace, security and freedom (an oxymoron) there must be a centralized authority over a whole with little or no community independence. Even most conservatives these days embrace this idea. Case in point: Conservatives these days don't even look to preserving States Rights, they look to the Federal government to "Keep Marriage between a man and a woman" or "give everybody Concealed Carry Permits (and calling it RTKBA)" While these issues in and of themselves are important, it's not the Federal government's responsibility to take care of these things. What you've done, is created a bigger monster than you set out to destroy. If the government is empowered to declare what marriage is or isnt', then it can turn around against you 20 years down the road and declare illegal what you are trying ot protect.

What kept America good in the late 18th and early 19th century was it's ability to unite in a common defense when the need came up and each sovereign community or state was free to choose what kind of society they wanted for better or worse resisting the trend of so-called Enlightened europe which was creating large centralized nationstates through Revolution (For example, The French Revolution, with it's guise of throwing out the aristocrats in the name of justice and "equality", with all their faults, turned France into a centralized corrupt nationstate system that gave Europe the Napoleon war machine who attempted to "unite" all of Europe under the French flag...and 200 years later Hitler came along and tried the same thing.)

America could still do the same as allies in common defense today even if different sections of the current Union were seperated. Even Thomas Jefferson spoke of an Northern and Southern confederacy in peace (then called Eastern and Western) when political troubles were brewing over Southern states to the west of New England using the Mississippi river for trade.

Chas.

Quote removed.

There was nothing wrong with your quote. Feel free to put it back. Had there been a problem, I or one of the Moderators would have sent you a PM.

Chas.

Mr. Cotton
+1. I liked his post too. Glad he put it back. But my question still remains: if we are worried about conveying a certain type of image to liberals and antigunners (who are going to say what they will about us anyway), then why are words such as his quote acceptable, but a civil discussion about secession is not?

Since you have left this thread open, not said anything to the contrary in PM, and others such as steve 64 are free to post here for comment, I assume this thread is still open for discussion. I'm not looking for trouble, but if a thread is open I want to feel free to respond to those who wish to discuss.
If the thread is still uncomfortable to you go ahead and close it.

[aardwolf]

"One of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the great struggle for independence."
-Charles Austin Beard

[WarHawk-AVG]

Has everyone FORGOTTEN the bill of rights..it seems you get to that all personal #2 and forget the rest

* Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

* Tenth Amendment – Powers of states and people.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

The tenth amendment pretty much states that the "Federal" government has NO power that is not delegated to it that isn't written into the constitution...those rights are reserved for the states and its people

So if the state of Texas says you have the RIGHT to carry a conceal handgun after you go thru a check the Federal government can't say "you can't" because its NOT their power to delegate that authority

Now go re-read YOUR constitution

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Here is a pretty down to earth explanation of the Bill of Rights
http://www.cyberlearning-world.com/nhhs ... xplain.htm