More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

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More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby ELB » Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:39 pm

This is a lawsuit, the official "she said" part of the equation, but the pronouncements of those on the "he said" are not terribly convincing, to my mind:

http://www.postindependent.com/news/124 ... ant-rights
http://www.mcknights.com/nursing-home-d ... le/363885/

In short, a woman says she was taken hostage and not told it was a drill until afterward..




Previous numbskullery like this discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=63807&hilit=hospital+hostage+drill#p782939
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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby tacticool » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:50 pm

One of these days they'll get what they deserve from someone who refuses to be a victim. One of these days.
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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby jmra » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:08 am

Obviously we don't have all the information, but unless the employer showed proof that they prepped the employees properly for the drill I'd say this is a slam dunk.
ETA: I would never believe someone who flashed a gun at me that their actions were a drill. I would have insisted on talking to 911 operators myself and confirming it was a drill at which time I also would have expressed my desire and right to be extracted from any and all actions associated with the drill.
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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby Excaliber » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:05 am

This is what happens when people who don't understand the problem come up with the solutions.
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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby Cedar Park Dad » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:32 am

jmra wrote:Obviously we don't have all the information, but unless the employer showed proof that they prepped the employees properly for the drill I'd say this is a slam dunk.
ETA: I would never believe someone who flashed a gun at me that their actions were a drill. I would have insisted on talking to 911 operators myself and confirming it was a drill at which time I also would have expressed my desire and right to be extracted from any and all actions associated with the drill.



Flash a gun at me and I will put you down. You won't have time to say its a drill. Thats the classic definition of "reasonable fear" right there.


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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby n5wd » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:16 am

Cedar Park Dad wrote:
jmra wrote:Obviously we don't have all the information, but unless the employer showed proof that they prepped the employees properly for the drill I'd say this is a slam dunk.
ETA: I would never believe someone who flashed a gun at me that their actions were a drill. I would have insisted on talking to 911 operators myself and confirming it was a drill at which time I also would have expressed my desire and right to be extracted from any and all actions associated with the drill.



Flash a gun at me and I will put you down. You won't have time to say its a drill. Thats the classic definition of "reasonable fear" right there.


C'mon back to the real world, CPD... this was a nurse in a nursing home. She wasn't armed, wasn't informed, and wasn't given a chance to give her Tarzan yell!
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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby ELB » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:33 am

Again, this is only one side of the story, but it certainly sounds stupid enough to be true.

A couple of her allegations:

70. For approximately the next twenty (20) minutes, the gunman -- who Ms. Meeker later learned was Defendant Zimmerman -- and LCCA Defendants’ management criticized Ms. Meeker for the things that they felt she had done wrong during the “active shooter drill.”

71. For example, Ms. Meeker was advised that she could have done better by yelling out, knocking over a nursing cart, making more noise, and bringing more attention to the situation.


This seems to me not only to be inadequate, but fundamentally wrong -- some stranger with a gun has taken her hostage and they want her to agitate him by making noise? Sounds like a great way to get shot. If she decides to sacrifice herself to warn others, I will praise her courage, but to lay that out as the job-required actions for an RN in a nursing home? :banghead: This is nuts. Excalibur got it exactly correct.
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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby AndyC » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:49 am

Excaliber wrote:This is what happens when people who don't understand the problem come up with the solutions.

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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby victory » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:10 pm

Cedar Park Dad wrote:Flash a gun at me and I will put you down. You won't have time to say its a drill. Thats the classic definition of "reasonable fear" right there.

Its a gun free zone but a medical professional presumably knows a thing or two about anatomy and has access to scalpels or other tools they can use to compromise the anatomy of the bad guy.

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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby RottenApple » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:16 pm

victory wrote:
Cedar Park Dad wrote:Flash a gun at me and I will put you down. You won't have time to say its a drill. Thats the classic definition of "reasonable fear" right there.

Its a gun free zone but a medical professional presumably knows a thing or two about anatomy and has access to scalpels or other tools they can use to compromise the anatomy of the bad guy.

The missing piece might be mindset if opportunity presented itself for Victory.


I don't know about CO, but nursing homes in TX are not gun free unless they post a 30.06 sign.


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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby Cedar Park Dad » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:49 pm

n5wd wrote:
Cedar Park Dad wrote:
jmra wrote:Obviously we don't have all the information, but unless the employer showed proof that they prepped the employees properly for the drill I'd say this is a slam dunk.
ETA: I would never believe someone who flashed a gun at me that their actions were a drill. I would have insisted on talking to 911 operators myself and confirming it was a drill at which time I also would have expressed my desire and right to be extracted from any and all actions associated with the drill.



Flash a gun at me and I will put you down. You won't have time to say its a drill. Thats the classic definition of "reasonable fear" right there.


C'mon back to the real world, CPD... this was a nurse in a nursing home. She wasn't armed, wasn't informed, and wasn't given a chance to give her Tarzan yell!



You're not catching my point. I'm not criticising her (I hope she gets 8 bazillion dollars and a lot of people get fired). I'm saying this is an excellent way for one of these jokers to get shot.

And you never know who is armed. Thats kind of the point of a CHL no?


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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby Cedar Park Dad » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:51 pm

victory wrote:
Cedar Park Dad wrote:Flash a gun at me and I will put you down. You won't have time to say its a drill. Thats the classic definition of "reasonable fear" right there.

Its a gun free zone but a medical professional presumably knows a thing or two about anatomy and has access to scalpels or other tools they can use to compromise the anatomy of the bad guy.

The missing piece might be mindset if opportunity presented itself for Victory.



That too. Who knows this could have been Nurse Ma Barker, throw coffee on him and give him an emergency castration. :eek6

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Re: More knuckleheadedness with active shooter drills...

Postby ELB » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:25 pm

A little resurrection here...might want to go back and read it from the top.

I had one of those "I wonder whatever happened..." thoughts today about this thread, so committed search-fu. Found the following article dated 9 Jun 16:

Carbondale insurer pays $85K over nursing home active shooter drill

The Cliff's Notes on this is that the Colorado Intergovernmental Risk Sharing Agency paid $85K to get the Carbondale police chief and one of his officers off the hook in the ensuing lawsuit. As of that date the lawsuit continued against the parent company of the nursing home.
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