Are you required to provide a quality service to everyone?
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
Here's a question for you. Should a Jewish synagogue and Rabbi be required to do a Christian or Muslim wedding? What about a funeral?
How about a Mosque and imam being required to do my Christian wedding or funeral?
Check out the video I posted. Should the Muslim bakeries be required to bake a cake celebrating a gay marriage.
How about a Mosque and imam being required to do my Christian wedding or funeral?
Check out the video I posted. Should the Muslim bakeries be required to bake a cake celebrating a gay marriage.
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
I am a Christian, and yet I am denied by certain Chrisitan churches to participate in their sacraments.
There is a big difference between the sacraments of a religion and the equal protection under the law afforded by the state. They must remain separate.
There is a big difference between the sacraments of a religion and the equal protection under the law afforded by the state. They must remain separate.
USMC, Retired
Treating one variety of person as better or worse than others by accident of birth is morally indefensible.
Treating one variety of person as better or worse than others by accident of birth is morally indefensible.
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
Does anyone know what this thread is about? First, it was about cakes, then it was about quality service in the marketplace and now it seems to have taken on religious overtones.
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
Here's a good article I just came across. Freedom of affiliation is part of freedom. As long as the decision isn't based on a protected class, business and individuals should be allowed to associate and do business with whom they want.
http://thefederalist.com/2015/04/01/gov ... ian-value/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://thefederalist.com/2015/04/01/gov ... ian-value/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In the public sector, the government must administer equal justice under the law and treat all Americans equally. …The private sector, such as it is, is something different. Private individuals on private property should be free to associate with whom and without whom they wish. Just because someone runs a business or is part of a private group or organization does not mean that she surrenders her rights or becomes a mere appendage of government. At least that’s what the First Amendment says — such as it is.
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
But heterosexuality is the default state for human beings, by a percentage of 97%+. People do not grow up wondering if they are straight, nor do they wrestle with the possibility that they might be straight. That 97% doesn't even think about or question their orientation, because heterosexuality is the biological norm. OTH, some people......in deviation from the default biological norm....do end up wondering if they might or might not be gay, and wrestling with that possibility....and then coming to the conclusion that they prefer their same gender for slap and tickle, and then choosing to go ahead and live their lives that way. In so doing, they are choosing to depart from the biological default. I, on the other hand, do not have to make that choice. In fact, I didn't choose at all. It's not that heterosexuality is my preference, it is that heterosexual is what I am.talltex wrote:Hold on...heterosexuality is also a sexual preference, and this whole discussion is based on protecting their right to impose their own moral or religious beliefs on others.mojo84 wrote:When did sexual preference become a protected class?
If it's not a protected class, then aren't some of you trying to impose your moral beliefs on others?
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
The Annoyed Man wrote:But heterosexuality is the default state for human beings, by a percentage of 97%+. People do not grow up wondering if they are straight, nor do they wrestle with the possibility that they might be straight. That 97% doesn't even think about or question their orientation, because heterosexuality is the biological norm. OTH, some people......in deviation from the default biological norm....do end up wondering if they might or might not be gay, and wrestling with that possibility....and then coming to the conclusion that they prefer their same gender for slap and tickle, and then choosing to go ahead and live their lives that way. In so doing, they are choosing to depart from the biological default. I, on the other hand, do not have to make that choice. In fact, I didn't choose at all. It's not that heterosexuality is my preference, it is that heterosexual is what I am.talltex wrote:Hold on...heterosexuality is also a sexual preference, and this whole discussion is based on protecting their right to impose their own moral or religious beliefs on others.mojo84 wrote:When did sexual preference become a protected class?
If it's not a protected class, then aren't some of you trying to impose your moral beliefs on others?
Annoyed Man your not playing the game fair.......................your statement made sense .
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
I don't disagree with your statement that heterosexuality is the biological norm. I'm in the norm and have been married to the same woman for 31 years. I think your statistics are a little off though...even back in the 50's/60's both Masters and Johnson and the Kinsey Report concluded that at least 10% of the population was not strictly hetero. Your last statement regarding choice is right at the heart of the debate. IF the statistic were reversed, and straight was the minority, do you honestly think you would be able to make the CHOICE to not be hetero? Most of the scientific research has concluded that sexuality is NOT a choice...just as you say about yourself. In most cases it's buried in the genetic coding just as most all human characteristics are. The vast majority of people are right handed...that is the default state, yet many are left handed. They didn't choose to be left handed...they simply are. At one time, being left handed was considered a "mark of the Devil" and even into the mid 20th century some parents and schools tried to force left handed children to become right handed. That concept is considered ludicrous today. Homosexual behavior has been scientifically observed and documented in every mammalian species, which lends even more credence to it being a "genetic aberration" from the norm rather than a choice. If that is the case (which I think it is) then it is not right to discriminate against someone just because they were created with a different biological urge than the majority. No more than to say left handed people are not entitled to the same rights as right handed folks just because they too are a deviation from the norm. Bottom line for me is, I just don't care who anyone else is attracted to or what they do about it. It has no effect on me whatsoever, and as long as they are happy with each other then I'm fine with it.The Annoyed Man wrote: But heterosexuality is the default state for human beings, by a percentage of 97%+. People do not grow up wondering if they are straight, nor do they wrestle with the possibility that they might be straight. That 97% doesn't even think about or question their orientation, because heterosexuality is the biological norm. OTH, some people......in deviation from the default biological norm....do end up wondering if they might or might not be gay, and wrestling with that possibility....and then coming to the conclusion that they prefer their same gender for slap and tickle, and then choosing to go ahead and live their lives that way. In so doing, they are choosing to depart from the biological default. I, on the other hand, do not have to make that choice. In fact, I didn't choose at all. It's not that heterosexuality is my preference, it is that heterosexual is what I am.
"I looked out under the sun and saw that the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong" Ecclesiastes 9:11
"The race may not always go to the swift or the battle to the strong, but that's the way the smart money bets" Damon Runyon
"The race may not always go to the swift or the battle to the strong, but that's the way the smart money bets" Damon Runyon
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
Sure it does. If there are those proposing that they would not serve gays because of their religion, who else are they judging?anygunanywhere wrote:I do not know what you mean by judge everyone's value around me. What do you mean by value and by around me? Your question makes no sense.Cedar Park Dad wrote:Do you judge everyone's value around you? If not why not?anygunanywhere wrote:We are absolutely supposed to judge moral values. We are not to judge a person's soul. Only God knows a person's heart, but when we see sin we are to correct it in charity and love. Using your example, we should never defend ourself with deadly force, because when we do we are then judging a person's actions.healthinsp wrote:The bible tells me that it is neither my place nor responsibility to judge other people's moral values. What was immoral 50-100 years ago is common place today. I own my own small business, and I try to treat everyone with the same excellent customer service.
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
Well in the thread's defense, that was the real point.Oldgringo wrote:Does anyone know what this thread is about? First, it was about cakes, then it was about quality service in the marketplace and now it seems to have taken on religious overtones.
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
You still did not clarify your previous question to me.Cedar Park Dad wrote:Sure it does. If there are those proposing that they would not serve gays because of their religion, who else are they judging?anygunanywhere wrote:I do not know what you mean by judge everyone's value around me. What do you mean by value and by around me? Your question makes no sense.Cedar Park Dad wrote:Do you judge everyone's value around you? If not why not?anygunanywhere wrote:We are absolutely supposed to judge moral values. We are not to judge a person's soul. Only God knows a person's heart, but when we see sin we are to correct it in charity and love. Using your example, we should never defend ourself with deadly force, because when we do we are then judging a person's actions.healthinsp wrote:The bible tells me that it is neither my place nor responsibility to judge other people's moral values. What was immoral 50-100 years ago is common place today. I own my own small business, and I try to treat everyone with the same excellent customer service.
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
anygunanywhere wrote:You still did not clarify your previous question to me.Cedar Park Dad wrote:Sure it does. If there are those proposing that they would not serve gays because of their religion, who else are they judging?anygunanywhere wrote:I do not know what you mean by judge everyone's value around me. What do you mean by value and by around me? Your question makes no sense.Cedar Park Dad wrote:Do you judge everyone's value around you? If not why not?anygunanywhere wrote:We are absolutely supposed to judge moral values. We are not to judge a person's soul. Only God knows a person's heart, but when we see sin we are to correct it in charity and love. Using your example, we should never defend ourself with deadly force, because when we do we are then judging a person's actions.healthinsp wrote:The bible tells me that it is neither my place nor responsibility to judge other people's moral values. What was immoral 50-100 years ago is common place today. I own my own small business, and I try to treat everyone with the same excellent customer service.
"Value" and "moral values" are two totally different things.
Last edited by mojo84 on Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
How about this: To those believing they would not serve homosexuals because it is a sin, who else would they not serve? Again thisquestion is restricted to legal activities and counterparties only.
Again, I'm not objecting, on libertarian grounds, but its interesting as I've never heard anyone refuse service to a group before outside of this or racists.
Again, I'm not objecting, on libertarian grounds, but its interesting as I've never heard anyone refuse service to a group before outside of this or racists.
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
The double standard here is incredible.Cedar Park Dad wrote:How about this: To those believing they would not serve homosexuals because it is a sin, who else would they not serve? Again thisquestion is restricted to legal activities and counterparties only.
Again, I'm not objecting, on libertarian grounds, but its interesting as I've never heard anyone refuse service to a group before outside of this or racists.
A quote from another thread that says it all.
I do not want a liberal using the government to tell me with whom I must associate or do business. The laws go both ways whether one claims to be libertarian or not.I'm not a Christian conservative. I'm a libertarian. I don't want some foam at the mouth bible thumper trying to use the government to tell me what to do any more than some Austin/Berkeley ...
As long as one isn't discriminating against a protected class, no harm no foul.
To answer your question, I would not work with a doctor that performs certain elective medical procedures. I also would not work with a group or organization that promotes those procedures. I also would not work with a purveyer or promoter of porn. What's your point?
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Re: Are you required to provide a quality service to everyon
What double standard? I'm asking a question. I've said nothing against your right to do business with who you want to do business with.mojo84 wrote:The double standard here is incredible.Cedar Park Dad wrote:How about this: To those believing they would not serve homosexuals because it is a sin, who else would they not serve? Again thisquestion is restricted to legal activities and counterparties only.
Again, I'm not objecting, on libertarian grounds, but its interesting as I've never heard anyone refuse service to a group before outside of this or racists.
A quote from another thread that says it all.
I'm not a Christian conservative. I'm a libertarian. I don't want some foam at the mouth bible thumper trying to use the government to tell me what to do any more than some Austin/Berkeley ...
Do people not ask questions in your world?
Just trying to find out what other groups you would object to. If you object to homosexuals, do you deal with divorced couples?To answer your question, I would not work with a doctor that performs certain elective medical procedures. I also would not work with a group or organization that promotes those procedures. I also would not work with a purveyer or promoter of porn. What's your point?