California Lege Considering Traffic Fine Based On Income

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm actually leaving for California tomorrow morning for a 2 week trip to visit family and friends......and to go on a campout with my old church family. Just my wife and me, and our little ol' travel trailer.

[Vol Texan]

I'm actually leaving for California tomorrow morning for a 2 week trip to visit family and friends......and to go on a campout with my old church family. Just my wife and me, and our little ol' travel trailer.

And no sidearm, I assume. Sorry to hear that.

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm actually leaving for California tomorrow morning for a 2 week trip to visit family and friends......and to go on a campout with my old church family. Just my wife and me, and our little ol' travel trailer.

And no sidearm, I assume. Sorry to hear that.

No, I'm bringing my G26, and my wife is bringing her G43. We just can't carry them while we're in California. Each time we drive out there, we stop at the last opportunity in Arizona, unload the guns, and lock them in a padlocked case, in accordance with California law. We can have them unlocked and loaded in our trailer once we're hooked up in a trailer park - which constitutes our domicile - but that's it. Can't do it that way on the road. That's the reason I also bring my Hawthorne root Shileilagh and a good knife. As of yet, the commies in California still don't care if an old man with a cane carries a pocket knife.

We reverse the process when we drive home. At the first opportunity after crossing back into the U.S.A., we reload the pistols and strap them on.

[flintknapper]

Oh heck yeah.....lets penalize 'success'. Good grief!

Easy to see why people are leaving Kali in droves.

[CleverNickname]

To some extent, I agree with the reasoning behind this. The idea behind a fine is to make it hurt enough to where people don't perform the same action in the future. If an average middle-class person gets a $200 traffic ticket, the fee will be annoying and they'll probably try to avoid doing the same action in the future, at least for awhile until the memory of the fine fades. If some Silicon Valley tech millionaire or Hollywood actor gets a $200 traffic ticket, it'll be pocket change and the cost won't cause them to think twice about doing the same action in the future. Alternatively, if some poor person gets a $200 traffic ticket, it would cause them much more disproportionate hit to their wallet. Is it really equal justice under the law if the effect on different people varies so much? A more serious crime that involved jail time wouldn't be appropriate to scale, because everyone experiences time at the same rate. But given that people's finances differ so much, I think scaling fines by income level isn't a terrible idea.

All that said, I'm against using income taxes for revenue generation, so ideally the government wouldn't know your income in the first place, and therefore scaling fines by income wouldn't be possible.

[ScottDLS]

To some extent, I agree with the reasoning behind this. The idea behind a fine is to make it hurt enough to where people don't perform the same action in the future. If an average middle-class person gets a $200 traffic ticket, the fee will be annoying and they'll probably try to avoid doing the same action in the future, at least for awhile until the memory of the fine fades. If some Silicon Valley tech millionaire or Hollywood actor gets a $200 traffic ticket, it'll be pocket change and the cost won't cause them to think twice about doing the same action in the future. Alternatively, if some poor person gets a $200 traffic ticket, it would cause them much more disproportionate hit to their wallet. Is it really equal justice under the law if the effect on different people varies so much? A more serious crime that involved jail time wouldn't be appropriate to scale, because everyone experiences time at the same rate. But given that people's finances differ so much, I think scaling fines by income level isn't a terrible idea.

All that said, I'm against using income taxes for revenue generation, so ideally the government wouldn't know your income in the first place, and therefore scaling fines by income wouldn't be possible.

The idea behind a fine is to represent the harm done to society by the offense. If you follow the logic of sliding scale fines, poor people should go to jail longer because they're not losing as much per day of lost work. It costs a rich person much more to be in jail for the same amount of time. So make the penalty the same jail wise or money wise.

[Liberty]

We have the best justice system in this country that money can buy. A $200 fine to some kids is a lot more severe than for the guy driving his Porscharatti who will likely just pay the extra adjudication fee just to keep it off his driving record. Most traffic stops are less about safety and more about revenue enhancement anyway. Maybe in some small way this will balance justice out just a little. The rich get to buy their justice as well as their fancy lawyers and political donations to DAs and Judges.

Life is hard, but a traffic ticket has a different weight for a kid trying to pay off college loans, rent and working for low wages, maybe trying to start a new family, then it is for us older middle class types who have paid our dues. Kids getting stopped, not affording the fines, getting warrants and then arrested are one of the reasons that kids have little respect for the law and those who enforce it.

[mojo84]

Here's an example of where this thought process has been in place four quite some time.

The healthcare industry does the same thing. There are multiple prices for the same procedure or test from the same provider. The price depends on how much they can get from each person. The price changes based upon ability to pay and how much they can force one to pay. We see how well that has been working.

The price should be the same for everyone and based upon the value of the service, procedure or test. The same goes with minor traffic violations all the way up to major crime. Severerity of the infraction or crime should dictate fine or punishment.

[Beiruty]

unconstitutional. Equality clause.

[TxRVer]

Maybe Justin Bieber will think twice before speeding.

[Take Down Sicko]

If they charge me by my income,they're only getting 4 dollars.

[Liberty]

There is no equality between the wealthy and poor in the court system. If there were, we wouldn't have expensive trial lawyers and bargain basement lawyers.

[treadlightly]

There is no equality between the wealthy and poor in the court system. If there were, we wouldn't have expensive trial lawyers and bargain basement lawyers.

But those lawyers aren't part of the court, they are defensive forces the citizen mustered.

Government has a limited role in equality outside the court.

Should demographics be part of criminal justice?

[Liberty]

The lawyers are considered officers of the court. People like Durst and OJ can get away with murder. A $200 dollar fine to most of us isn't a matter of choosing a warrant or being evicted. To the wealthy, it's barely notable. I really don't have any solutions to the fairness of our justice system, but am just noting that we have the best justice money can buy, and maybe that the little guy could get a break once in a while.

[Abraham]

Liberty you posted:

"Kids getting stopped, not affording the fines, getting warrants and then arrested are one of the reasons that kids have little respect for the law and those who enforce it."

Tell me you're joking, please...

I'm sure you've heard the adage: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime?

If you can't afford to pay a traffic fine, don't break the law - no exceptions for tender young snowflakes.

Assuming a young person can afford a vehicle, pay for the insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc. than they can assume the cost if caught breaking the laws that pertain to it.

No whining about how young Ms./Mr. Snowflake can't afford to obey the law or be held to adult responsibilities!

No soup for you Snowflake - Pay the fine in full or go to jail.

Bailiff, bring in the next whiner, I mean offender.