Amateur Radio vs. HOA

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twjones
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Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby twjones » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:15 pm

Well... had this great idea to put up a vertical antenna and get back on the air a little more since moving down here.

Had already planned out most of my equipment and how to get the rest of my gear down here from Illinois.

But now... reading the deed restrictions this morning and I come along this horse manure (attachment).

Still PO'd, but now what?

Do most HOA's have this language in their deed restrictions?

Anyone had a similar battle and was able to put something up? How did you do it?

I was planning on a vertical of some sort since I don't have any trees in my backyard (and figured the backyard would be "out of site from the public," similar to putting up a play house, etc.)

Thanks for your help.

73
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johncanfield
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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby johncanfield » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:35 pm

There is an effort in Congress to pass a bill to prevent absolute ham radio antenna restrictions and covenants like your situation. I'm sorry but I don't remember any details since I don't have a dog in the hunt, I live on a small ranch. Read up on this at ARRL, eHam, QRZ, etc.

Be that as it may, many hams have successfully put up stealth antennas, so do some research. Also working digital modes doesn't require much power or a great antenna, particularly JT65. You can work stations in JT65 you literally can't hear, it's my favorite mode.

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twjones
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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby twjones » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:44 pm

Thanks John. Yes, I've been following HR 555; however, not sure how many problems it will actually solve.

(1) require any licensee in an amateur radio service to notify and obtain prior approval from a community association concerning installation of an outdoor antenna;

(2) permit a community association to prohibit installation of any antenna or antenna support structure by a licensee in an amateur radio service on common property not under the exclusive use or control of the licensee; and

(3) subject to the standards specified in paragraphs (1) and (2) of subsection (a), permit a community association to establish reasonable written rules concerning height, location, size, and aesthetic impact of, and installation requirements for, outdoor antennas and support structures for the purpose of conducting communications in the amateur radio services.


Hoping for a solution before this...

Perhaps a stealth antenna is the way to go... eyeing the Windom now.


RSX11
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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby RSX11 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:03 pm

Put up a flagpole, or a bird house on a long mast....if you know what I mean...or put up a dipole using #26 enamel wire - practically impossible to spot.


WTR
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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby WTR » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:22 pm

You bought the property, now abide by the rules. My friend had a neighbor who's ham antenna interrupted all TV reception. I use to have a ham antenna, but I chose to live in the country.

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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby Liberty » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:26 pm

A copper pipe J pole in the attic should work as well as this inexpencive device.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELUXE-MODEL-RO ... 0898779511

Which can be stapled to the side of the building. You will want to ensure this particular antenna is set away from aluminum gutters and drains.
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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby srothstein » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:32 pm

I am not a ham nor a lawyer and have little knowledge of the types of antennae used. I just wanted to point out that I read the ban posted as using a distributive OR. That means it is banning using a dish type device or dish type antenna. They may be trying to avoid microwave or satellite type frequencies and not care too much about pole antennae and those frequencies.
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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby Liberty » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:34 pm

WTR wrote:You bought the property, now abide by the rules. My friend had a neighbor who's ham antenna interrupted all TV reception. I use to have a ham antenna, but I chose to live in the country.

I doubt if interference will be an issue. Most homeowners in HOAs in League City will have cable. Most bands on a properly installed hamshack won't cause interference on todays digital TVs. The rare issues that do occur can be typically resolved quite easily.
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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby WTR » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:48 pm

Liberty wrote:
WTR wrote:You bought the property, now abide by the rules. My friend had a neighbor who's ham antenna interrupted all TV reception. I use to have a ham antenna, but I chose to live in the country.

The rare issues that do occur can be typically resolved quite easily.



Depends on the peckerwood you are dealing with. I had a guy who bought two acres out here then filled it up with junk cars. No talking to him. Had to go the legal route.

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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby Liberty » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:54 pm

Ithink the rule as worded is patently illegal. They have right to tell you that you can't have an antenna or broadcast. Maybe thaey have a right to tell you that you can't have one visible for aesthetic reasons. I'm no lawyer, but it doesn't sound righto me that they can tell you what you can do behind closed doors
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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby NotRPB » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:03 pm

OTARD
The FCC rules for Over-the-Air-Reception Devices – OTARD
Installing Consumer-Owned Antennas and Satellite Dishes
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/installing-consumer-owned-antennas-and-satellite-dishes
Antennas used for AM/FM radio, amateur (“ham”) radio, CB radio, Digital Audio Radio Services or antennas used as part of a hub to relay signals among multiple locations are not covered by these rules.


I use mine for scanning frequencies from longwave to Microwave ... although interestinglyly some could be used for transmitting too ...

Q: Can HOAs regulate residents’ satellite dishes?
http://www.allpropertymanagement.com/ask-a-pro/can-hoas-regulate-residents-satellite-dishes/
It turns out the federal government has taken some power out of HOA boards’ hands. In the United States, broadcasting regulation comes under the purview of the Federal Communications Commission – and that includes the regulation of devices designed to receive signals, not just to transmit them.

TV Antennas, the FCC, and Your HOA
https://www.groundedreason.com/tv-antennas-fcc-hoa/

I've seen the patio table umbrella housing a dish, and flagpole dipole types, IN Pasadena I had an inside the attic discone with various wavelength antennas attached to it all the way to longwave for reception, and some tuned to several transmit frequencies...

My current city has had an ordinance against antennas/towers on the books a while ... mine are about the biggest tallest ones in the city, I also have a 6-foot C-band I painted in Camo, and a small motorized KU-band dish in the front yard...That's how people find my house. :biggrinjester:
I'm not a lawyer.


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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby BeanCounter » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:38 pm

I helped a fellow Ham and HOA captive construct a rather tall backyard jungle gym for his future grand kids. Since the kidos were not currently using it... He stored a few antennas in there. His neighbors even complemented his construction efforts.... since it was "for the kids".
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TexasJohnBoy
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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby TexasJohnBoy » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:13 pm

I'm thinking that deed restriction is bunk:
(e) Except as otherwise provided
herein, a station antenna structure
may be erected at heights and dimensions
sufficient to accommodate amateur
service communications. [State
and local regulation of a station antenna
structure must not preclude
amateur service communications.

Rather, it must reasonably accommodate
such communications and must
constitute the minimum practicable
regulation to accomplish the state or
local authority’s legitimate purpose.
[See PRB–1, 101 FCC 2d 952 (1985) for details.]


https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-1996- ... c97-15.pdf

Also: http://www.arrl.org/restrictive-antenna-ordinances

Then again, I'm not the one picking the fight, nor am I a lawyer.
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Keith B
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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby Keith B » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:24 pm

TexasJohnBoy wrote:I'm thinking that deed restriction is bunk:
(e) Except as otherwise provided
herein, a station antenna structure
may be erected at heights and dimensions
sufficient to accommodate amateur
service communications. [State
and local regulation of a station antenna
structure must not preclude
amateur service communications.

Rather, it must reasonably accommodate
such communications and must
constitute the minimum practicable
regulation to accomplish the state or
local authority’s legitimate purpose.
[See PRB–1, 101 FCC 2d 952 (1985) for details.]


https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-1996- ... c97-15.pdf

Also: http://www.arrl.org/restrictive-antenna-ordinances

Then again, I'm not the one picking the fight, nor am I a lawyer.


PRB-1 only affects governmental bodies and their regulation of amateur radio stations and towers/antennas. An HOA/CC&R agreement is a private contract signed and agreed to when you purchase the property, so not impacted by PRB-1 and is legally enforceable by the HOA.

As stated, try to put up a stealth antenna or antenna's in your attic. I had wire antennas from my chimney outside, as well as an antenna in PVC pipe that had an anemometer on top for my weather station. No one from the HOA ever noticed or said a word about them cause they were unobtrusive. If you hide it they should never know you are using it if it is don'e properly.
Keith
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Re: Amateur Radio vs. HOA

Postby Liberty » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:55 pm

The rule states,
No disk-type device or antenna shall ever be used to send or receive any ham radio signal.


Sounds to me they are restricting receiving from a scanner , using a handy talky .. and is arbitrary discriminatory and irrelevant.

I am not a lawyer but I sometimes watch Perry Mason. :biggrinjester
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