Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

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Vol Texan
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Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

#1

Post by Vol Texan »

This is a new thread to keep from hijacking the meme thread. This post is in response to: /viewtopic.php?f=94&t=83651&p=1164944#p1164944

I'm channeling my inner TAM here by writing a long post. But given the political climate we're in right now, the violence and hysteria demonstrated by the left on this matter (recognizing the tragedy of this week was committed by an idiot white supremacist who deserves the death penalty, if you ask me), and our potential necessity to have a reasoned discussion with a PPO who demands that we erase all our history, I figured it's worth writing about.

Bitter Clinger wrote:Image
RoyGBiv wrote:^^^^ https://www.facingsouth.org/2015/07/bus ... ederate-ve

TLDR version:
If you're referring to the 1958 legislation, all it did was make Confederate veterans eligible for the same VA benefits as Union soldiers were. It did not make them U.S. veterans, make any other official change in their status, or extend any particular protections to graves or monuments.
True, those words are on that page, but it's an opinion page, not a record of all the facts. Her entire site is a progressive liberal blog. Just look at the Board of Directors bios and you'll find the following:
  • a 'rural activist'
  • a writer for the Huffington Post, NYT, Salon, etc
  • an editor at Ipas (just look at the headlines on there and you'll see their bias: "A new and detailed examination of the likely impact of President Trump’s Global Gag Rule points toward extensive and damaging effects in some of the world’s poorest countries")
  • and a research director at Democracy North Carolina.
You really have to take everything written within the facingsouth.org domain with a knowledge of the bias that they provide.

Another site that I found (also an opinion page) states it quite differently, as it references further back than just one section of one law from 1958:
The movement to honor Confederate soldiers as veterans of the United States started with President William McKinley in 1898, after the Spanish-American War. He delivered a speech on Dec. 14, 1898, that urged reconciliation based on the fact that so many previously Confederate soldiers had outstanding service to the country in that war. Here is part of what he said: “… every soldier’s grave made during our unfortunate civil war [sic] is a tribute to American valor … And the time has now come … when in the spirit of fraternity we should share in the care of the graves of the Confederate soldiers … The cordial feeling now happily existing between the North and South prompts this gracious act and if it needed further justification it is found in the gallant loyalty to the Union and the flag so conspicuously shown in the year just passed by the sons and grandsons of those heroic dead.”

Congress was so taken by the speech that Congressional Appropriations Act was signed on June 6, 1900. This act of appropriations for $2,500 that enabled the “Secretary of War to have reburied in some suitable spot in the national cemetery at Arlington, Virginia, and to place proper headstones at their graves, the bodies of about 128 Confederate soldiers now buried in the National Soldiers Home near Washington, D.C., and the bodies of about 136 Confederate soldiers now buried in the national cemetery at Arlington, Virginia.”

A law passed in 1906 authorized the furnishing of headstones for the graves of Confederates who died, primarily in Union prison camps and were buried in federal cemeteries. This law formally reaffirmed Confederate soldiers as military combatants with legal standing. It granted recognition to deceased Confederate soldiers commensurate with the status of deceased Union soldiers.
So what she did is reference one clause of one law that was written almost 50 years later - a law that refers to the widows, rather than to the soldiers themselves, it's easy to find just what you need to debunk anything you want.

Now, I'm no legal scholar. It is possible that the site I found is also cherry-picking words for the purpose of showing just one side. I hope that someone here can shed a brighter light on this for us.

ETA: Another site I read listed a bunch of pertinent legislation (the most interesting part is right at the bottom of the quote below):
Congressional Appropriations Act, FY 1901, signed 6 June 1900

Congress passed an act of appropriations for $2,500 that enabled the “Secretary of War to have reburied in some suitable spot in the national cemetery at Arlington, Virginia, and to place proper headstones at their graves, the bodies of about 128 Confederate soldiers now buried in the National Soldiers Home near Washington, D.C., and the bodies of about 136 Confederate soldiers now buried in the national cemetery at Arlington, Virginia.”

Remarks: More important than the amount (worth substantially more in 1900 than in 2000) is the move to support reconciliation by Congressional act. In 1906, Confederate Battle flags were ordered to be returned to the states from whence they originated. Some states refused to return the flags. Wisconsin still has at least one flag it refuses to return.

Congressional Act of 9 March 1906
(P.L. 38, 59th Congress, Chap. 631-34 Stat. 56)

Authorized the furnishing of headstones for the graves of Confederates who died, primarily in Union prison camps and were buried in Federal cemeteries.

Remarks: This act formally reaffirmed Confederate soldiers as military combatants with legal standing. It granted recognition to deceased Confederate soldiers commensurate with the status of deceased Union soldiers.

[Editor’s Note: I might also add here that the opening ceremonies off every Sons of Confederate Veterans Reunion always include a welcoming address by the commander of the Grand Army of the Republic descendent organization…Jim Dean]

_________________________________

U.S. Public Law 810, Approved by 17th Congress 26 February 1929
(45 Stat 1307 – Currently on the books as 38 U.S. Code, Sec. 2306)

This law, passed by the U.S. Congress, authorized the “Secretary of War to erect headstones over the graves of soldiers who served in the Confederate Army and to direct him to preserve in the records of the War Department the names and places of burial of all soldiers for whom such headstones shall have been erected.”

Remarks: This act broadened the scope of recognition further for all Confederate soldiers to receive burial benefits equivalent to Union soldiers. It authorized the use of U.S. government (public) funds to mark Confederate graves and record their locations.

_________________________________

U.S. Public Law 85-425: Sec. 410 Approved 23 May 1958
(US Statutes at Large Volume 72, Part 1, Page 133-134)

The Administrator shall pay to each person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War a monthly pension in the same amounts and subject to the same conditions as would have been applicable to such person under the laws in effect on December 31, 1957, if his service in such forces had been service in the military or naval forces of the United States.

Remarks: While this was only a gesture since the last Confederate veteran died in 1958, it is meaningful in that only forty-five years ago (from 2003), the Congress of the United States saw fit to consider Confederate soldiers as equivalent to U.S. soldiers for service benefits.

This final act of reconciliation was made almost one hundred years after the beginning of the war and was meant as symbolism more than substantive reward.

Additional Note by the Critical History: Under current U.S. Federal Code, Confederate Veterans are equivalent to Union Veterans.

U.S. Code Title 38Veterans’ Benefits, Part II – General Benefits, Chapter 15 – Pension for Non-Service-Connected Disability or Death or for Service, Subchapter I – General, § 1501. Definitions:

(3) The term “Civil War veteran” includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term “active military or naval service” includes active service in those forces.
Last edited by Vol Texan on Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

#2

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Vol Texan wrote: You really have to take everything written within the facingsouth.org domain with a knowledge of the bias that they provide.
The Readers Digest version: Facingsouth.org is just another leftists mouthpiece spouting the party's agenda lines.
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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

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Thanks for this
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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

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Post by dale blanker »

I don't think the removal of Confederate memorials or statues has anything to do with Confederate veterans or any person. It's about removing the glorification of a dark time in our history. Unfortunately, the removing of same does not "erase history" or allow the 620,000 Americans that died in the Civil War to have lived or remove the fact that slavery existed in U.S.A.
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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

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Post by bblhd672 »

Image
The left lies about everything. Truth is a liberal value, and truth is a conservative value, but it has never been a left-wing value. People on the left say whatever advances their immediate agenda. Power is their moral lodestar; therefore, truth is always subservient to it. - Dennis Prager
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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

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Protesters who seek the removal of Confederate statues are no different from the Taliban in Afghanistan. They are completely ignorant of the history they seek to erase and deserve to be educated, harshly.
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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

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A better movement would be to develop a set of monuments or museums that educate people about the reality of slavery in the US rather than tear down other monuments. I guess that doesn't satisfy their emotional need to lash out and it doesn't fit a political purpose.
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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

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Divisiveness in our society has taken hold. Instead of people looking for commonality and the embodiment of noble ideals in their fellow man, we now find ourselves vilifying everyone who does not share our worldview. Taking / tearing down these monuments and renaming everything is simply the latest symptom. By focusing only on each person's flaws, who is worth honoring with any sort of memorial? On the other side of the coin, what lessons of history might remain unlearned if they are not honored and their actions remembered? Regardless of who erected these statues and for what reasons, I choose to look for what ideals the honoree exhibited that might be worth honoring and/or emulating.
Last edited by Middle Age Russ on Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

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Middle Age Russ wrote:Divisiveness in our society has taken hold. Instead of people looking for commonality and the embodiment of noble ideals in their fellow man, we now find ourselves vilifying everyone who does not share our worldview. Taking / tearing down these monuments and renaming everything is simply the latest symptom. By focusing only on each person's flaws, who is worth honoring with any sort of memorial? On the other side of the coin, what lessons of history might remain unlearned if they are not honored and their actions remembered? Regardless of who erected these statues and for what reasons, I choose to look for what ideals the honoree exhibited that might be worth honoring and/or emulating.
Well I agree with you I think, but it seems like we normally honor those who do great things, have helped develop or support the constitution, founders of our country, veterans who fought to preserve the system, etc. I'm not sure how Confederates got into that mix.

I certainly don't believe Confederates should be vilified because they were trying to preserve the only lifestyle they knew. The real problem with their statues is that it honors or glorifies a dark place in our history. Talk about erasing history is silly unless you've got the right kind of DeLorean.

The protesting in Charlottesville was really not about removing a statue or history, it was just an excuse for some fringe groups to rally - and they have the right to do so. Too bad the anti-protesters got involved in violence. They should have let the Neo-Nazi have their say, no matter how ugly, and called it a day.
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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

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Post by WTR »

dale blanker wrote:
Middle Age Russ wrote:Divisiveness in our society has taken hold. Instead of people looking for commonality and the embodiment of noble ideals in their fellow man, we now find ourselves vilifying everyone who does not share our worldview. Taking / tearing down these monuments and renaming everything is simply the latest symptom. By focusing only on each person's flaws, who is worth honoring with any sort of memorial? On the other side of the coin, what lessons of history might remain unlearned if they are not honored and their actions remembered? Regardless of who erected these statues and for what reasons, I choose to look for what ideals the honoree exhibited that might be worth honoring and/or emulating.
Well I agree with you I think, but it seems like we normally honor those who do great things, have helped develop or support the constitution, founders of our country, veterans who fought to preserve the system, etc. I'm not sure how Confederates got into that mix.

I certainly don't believe Confederates should be vilified because they were trying to preserve the only lifestyle they knew. The real problem with their statues is that it honors or glorifies a dark place in our history. Talk about erasing history is silly unless you've got the right kind of DeLorean.

The protesting in Charlottesville was really not about removing a statue or history, it was just an excuse for some fringe groups to rally - and they have the right to do so. Too bad the anti-protesters got involved in violence. They should have let the Neo-Nazi have their say, no matter how ugly, and called it a day.
You sound as if you believe the Civil War was fought over slavery. How nieve.
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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

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dale blanker wrote:I don't think the removal of Confederate memorials or statues has anything to do with Confederate veterans or any person. It's about removing the glorification of a dark time in our history. Unfortunately, the removing of same does not "erase history" or allow the 620,000 Americans that died in the Civil War to have lived or remove the fact that slavery existed in U.S.A.
Are you in favor of tearing down statues of George Washington because he was a white slave owner who rebelled against his government?
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Re: Honoring vs. Vilifying Confederate Veterans

#13

Post by Oldgringo »

Removing these historic monuments is about as stupid as an ostrich sticking its head in the sand to avoid danger. The Civil War was about a whole lot more than slavery. I strongly suspect that my poor white, share cropping ancestors did not have any slaves.
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