Not again!!!
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Re: Not again!!!
Deplorable lunatic since 2016
Re: Not again!!!
I scarified political correctness to preserve honesty ︻╦̵̵͇̿̿̿̿══╤─
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Re: Not again!!!
Two forward deployed ships out of action for an extended time that aren't easy to replace. Loss of life. All in 7th Fleet's AOR. Long hard look at training and practices ahead.
LTC / SSC Instructor. NRA - Instructor, CRSO, Life Member.
Sig pistol/rifle & Glock armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT
Sig pistol/rifle & Glock armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT
Re: Not again!!!
As a former squid this is just baffling. No way in hell can I conceive of these merchant running into naval vessels without someone seeing or tracking them. The only possibility I can even fathom is the ship was dead in the water.
Re: Not again!!!
I'd expect the merchant ship to be sunk before it even can get close!1911 10MM wrote:As a former squid this is just baffling. No way in heck can I conceive of these merchant running into naval vessels without someone seeing or tracking them. The only possibility I can even fathom is the ship was dead in the water.
I scarified political correctness to preserve honesty ︻╦̵̵͇̿̿̿̿══╤─
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Re: Not again!!!
As a Navy vet I just can't see how this could happen without negligence. Destroyers are about 3-5x over manned on the bridge and watch stations compared to merchants. They're way more maneuverable and the radars are much better (at least they're supposed to be). Some of my fellow Navy destroyer watch officers were civilian maritime academy graduates and short of the captain, they were the best ship handlers and navigators on board. Me and some of the other landlubber junior officers, not so much. But I can tell you that as bad of a conning officer/JOOD that I was, there is no way I would have crashed my ship into a freighter. Even at night...in a busy sea lane. You can stop or maneuvering a twin screw gas turbine or even steam powered destroyer quite easily.
My suspicion is they were playing games like running with no lights or maneuvering close to a merchant to hide in their radar signature, or distracted with some other mindless bureaucratic task like making sure the decorative brass barometer was polished...or counting the number of microagressions against trans sailors....or whatever. Anything but learning how to "drive" a ship. I've done underway replenishing (two ships side by side connected by wires and hoses for transferring cargo) at night in moderate seas and didn't manage to crash my destroyer. You can bet though that the Captain, XO, Deck Officer, and every other stray Lieutenant Commander was on the bridge looking over my shoulder too... And remember I sucked as a conning officer....
ETA: "Go out the side of the bridge wing and LOOK AROUND, Ensign ScottDLS!!!!". -XO, USS John King (DDG-3) c. 1989....
My suspicion is they were playing games like running with no lights or maneuvering close to a merchant to hide in their radar signature, or distracted with some other mindless bureaucratic task like making sure the decorative brass barometer was polished...or counting the number of microagressions against trans sailors....or whatever. Anything but learning how to "drive" a ship. I've done underway replenishing (two ships side by side connected by wires and hoses for transferring cargo) at night in moderate seas and didn't manage to crash my destroyer. You can bet though that the Captain, XO, Deck Officer, and every other stray Lieutenant Commander was on the bridge looking over my shoulder too... And remember I sucked as a conning officer....
ETA: "Go out the side of the bridge wing and LOOK AROUND, Ensign ScottDLS!!!!". -XO, USS John King (DDG-3) c. 1989....
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"
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Re: Not again!!!
yeh, and N Korea playing games......Scott B. wrote:Two forward deployed ships out of action for an extended time that aren't easy to replace. Loss of life. All in 7th Fleet's AOR. Long hard look at training and practices ahead.
~Tracy
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir
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Re: Not again!!!
bmwrdr wrote:US Navy 7th Fleet commander dismissed!
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/22/politics/ ... index.html
It's not possible to have this many major screwups under competent command.
I heartily applaud the decision to ditch the boss and send a message to the rest of the military that Obama is no longer in office and results, not the number of sensitivity training sessions, is what counts for their careers.
Excaliber
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
Re: Not again!!!
That is my understanding too, there is no excuse for unnecessary loss of lives.Excaliber wrote:bmwrdr wrote:US Navy 7th Fleet commander dismissed!
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/22/politics/ ... index.html
It's not possible to have this many major screwups under competent command.
I heartily applaud the decision to ditch the boss and send a message to the rest of the military that Obama is no longer in office and results, not the number of sensitivity training sessions, is what counts for their careers.
I scarified political correctness to preserve honesty ︻╦̵̵͇̿̿̿̿══╤─
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Re: Not again!!!
USNI Proceedings, let my subscription lapse years ago, has the first of a very informative series:
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedi ... oot-causes
Some sobering stuff in there about eliminating SWOSDOC an favor of computer based training and OJT.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedi ... oot-causes
Some sobering stuff in there about eliminating SWOSDOC an favor of computer based training and OJT.
LTC / SSC Instructor. NRA - Instructor, CRSO, Life Member.
Sig pistol/rifle & Glock armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT
Sig pistol/rifle & Glock armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT
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Re: Not again!!!
That info is really scaring stuff - another catastrophic example of Obama hollowing out our military.Scott B. wrote:USNI Proceedings, let my subscription lapse years ago, has the first of a very informative series:
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedi ... oot-causes
Some sobering stuff in there about eliminating SWOSDOC an favor of computer based training and OJT.
Excaliber
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
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Re: Not again!!!
Is what we are seeing remnants of the Obama military (lack of) leadership?
It's fine if you disagree. I can't force you to be correct.
NRA Life Member, TSRA Life Member, GSSF Member
A pistol without a round chambered is an expensive paper weight.
NRA Life Member, TSRA Life Member, GSSF Member
A pistol without a round chambered is an expensive paper weight.
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Re: Not again!!!
Wow, that is really shocking. I went to Surface Warfare Officer School Division Officer Course in 1988 and it was really the only shiphandling and seamanship training I had before conning a 4700 ton twin screw Destroyer. Through a quirk of scheduling I first went to my ship 5 days after commissioning before SWOSDOC. But luckily we were in Drydock, so the Captain never had to worry about me crashing it. He never would have let me stand bridge watch anyway even as JOOD until I had the school.Excaliber wrote:That info is really scaring stuff - another catastrophic example of Obama hollowing out our military.Scott B. wrote:USNI Proceedings, let my subscription lapse years ago, has the first of a very informative series:
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedi ... oot-causes
Some sobering stuff in there about eliminating SWOSDOC an favor of computer based training and OJT.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"
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Re: Not again!!!
I served aboard the USS Fitzgerald, I am in fact a plank owner and have a lot of pride in that ship. The damage that DDG-62 and her crew suffered affected me in a strange way that I find somewhat difficult to explain. As the Fitgerald's first master helmsman; I do NOT understand how these incidents keep occurring. I spent quite a bit of time in the pilot house and knowing the capabilities of that ship; both in terms of maneuverability and aegis radar/sonar, none of this makes sense to me or my brothers whom I served with.
Fair weather and following seas to all souls lost,
Surfer
Fair weather and following seas to all souls lost,
Surfer
CHL/LTC instructor
NRA basic pistol/home firearm safety instructor.
NRA basic pistol/home firearm safety instructor.