Not again!!!

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AndyC
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby AndyC » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:09 pm

I hope the loss of life is zero - or as little as possible :(
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treadlightly
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby treadlightly » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:35 pm

The earth is curved. A ship will go from a peek over the horizon to on top of you in 12-15 minutes. One ship on a non- collision course can mask another. I don't mean to say somebody wasn't lax. Just that navigating a boat of any size requires a lot of vigilance. A lapse puts lives at risk, and it can happen quick.

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Re: Not again!!!

Postby bmwrdr » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:16 am

A possible cyber attack may be the cause according to an article on the web.
If that is the case North Korea may be able to defat us in no time!
Are the bean counters to be blamed by cutting funds for upgrades and proper maintenance?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article168470432.html
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WTR
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby WTR » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:24 am

bmwrdr wrote:A possible cyber attack may be the cause according to an article on the web.
If that is the case North Korea may be able to defat us in no time!
Are the bean counters to be blamed by cutting funds for upgrades and proper maintenance?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article168470432.html



I don't think the bean counters can be blamed for eyes and binoculars missing another ship.

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Excaliber
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby Excaliber » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:41 am

treadlightly wrote:The earth is curved. A ship will go from a peek over the horizon to on top of you in 12-15 minutes. One ship on a non- collision course can mask another. I don't mean to say somebody wasn't lax. Just that navigating a boat of any size requires a lot of vigilance. A lapse puts lives at risk, and it can happen quick.


I understand that, but it doesn't explain why merchant ships don't seem to run into each other - just into Arleigh Burke missile cruisers.
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bmwrdr
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby bmwrdr » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:46 am

WTR wrote:
bmwrdr wrote:A possible cyber attack may be the cause according to an article on the web.
If that is the case North Korea may be able to defat us in no time!
Are the bean counters to be blamed by cutting funds for upgrades and proper maintenance?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article168470432.html


I don't think the bean counters can be blamed for eyes and binoculars missing another ship.


Bean counters means those which provide or block funds. If there were in fact hackers at work then I'd say security measures were not executed appropriately. If the "binocular operator" is yo blame I think we have a problem as well.
I personally agree with another forum members statement saying freight liners hit U.S. warships more often than we read about colissions between cemercial ships.
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby Pariah3j » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:25 am

Big ships, slow reaction speeds - if the electronics failed to pick up the ship far enough out or at a safe distance, then the 'binocular operator' may not have spotted the ship in time to avoid a collision. Plus the tanker rammed into the side of our Navy ship - wasn't our failure to avoid, it was the tanker's job to slow down or shift course unless we cut in front of them suddenly -which is doubtful.
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby The Annoyed Man » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:00 am

Excaliber wrote:Inquiring minds might want to know why modern Navy destroyers that are fast, agile, crewed by highly trained professionals, and have the best high tech situational awareness electronics money can buy can get rammed by huge merchant vessels with lots fewer gadgets and second and third rate crews.

They also might want to know why the huge merchant vessels don't seem to run into each other - just into Navy ships. And not just any Navy ships - but the latest Areleigh Burke class destroyers that would be sorely needed in any conflict with North Korea.

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Re: Not again!!!

Postby bblhd672 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:39 pm

There are international rules of seamanship, in addition to US Navy rules that supplement the international rules. A US Navy warship with properly operating radars and properly trained and stationed watchkeepers should rarely, if ever, be in a collision with a massive civilian ship.
Failure by the officers and crew to maintain an accurate plot of all vessels in the area and the situational awareness to operate safely is inexcusable.
When commanding officers slack off on drills and necessary training, people die.

Unless the past few years there has been more emphasis on how personnel feel than how they do their duty.
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby powerboatr » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:30 pm

as a 22 year veteran of the US Navy I am appalled at loss of life and what seems to be a pattern. Today the Navy announced it had found remains of several crew members inside the flooded berthing compartment. Yes berthing areas can be locked off to stop flooding and i am sure the emergency team did all it cold to ensure personnel where exited before the doors were shut. BUT a hole that big tends to bring in HUGE amounts of water are a very high rate so i am sure time was of the essence and these crew men or women perished to save the ship and other crew.

That being said this area of the oceans is considered a HIGH traffic zone and would have required extra details on watch to ensure this type of mishaps are mitigated.
The navy does not believe in accidents as ever accident is avoidable. therefore this mishap is a deep problem to find the source of cause.

Now a cargo ship or tanker generally runs 8 to 15 knots of speed and it would or should have been noticed by 12- 18 people on watch
5- 8 on the bridge and the rest in CIC below decks watching the world most sophisticated radar system. There is no excuse for not noticing a ship closing the distance, whether it was intentional or accident.

at report today may shed some light...a lady stated she had just texted her loved one not long before the incident and facebook posts may reveal many crew were online at the time.
could it be all watch members were surfing the net and not doing their jobs to protect the crew and ship? Now days there is POTS(plain ol telephone) and real live high speed internet 24/7 on these ships. Maybe it needs to be looked at as a source of issue. the OOD and JOOD (officer of the deck and junior) are in charge, and with that are expected to make sure the entire watch team is engaged managing the ship and its safety, not surfing fb or texting
do we have a breakdown in leadership skills?
Let us pray for the lost souls and let us also pray a solution is found before any more shipmates are taken from our navy
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby The Annoyed Man » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:34 pm

A friend of mine who keeps up with these sort of things told me today that:
... there are also reports that McCain suffered a "steering casualty" before the collision.... meaning she may have been out of control or adrift if not under power.
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby ninjabread » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:39 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:A friend of mine who keeps up with these sort of things told me today that:
... there are also reports that McCain suffered a "steering casualty" before the collision.... meaning she may have been out of control or adrift if not under power.

The ship or the Senator?
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby The Annoyed Man » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:41 pm

ninjabread wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:A friend of mine who keeps up with these sort of things told me today that:
... there are also reports that McCain suffered a "steering casualty" before the collision.... meaning she may have been out of control or adrift if not under power.

The ship or the Senator?

Both. :lol:
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."—Hookalakah Meshobbab
"I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes."—The Annoyed Boy
"Id aegre et in omnibus semper."—Quod Homo Aegre

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bmwrdr
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby bmwrdr » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:41 pm

ninjabread wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:A friend of mine who keeps up with these sort of things told me today that:
... there are also reports that McCain suffered a "steering casualty" before the collision.... meaning she may have been out of control or adrift if not under power.

The ship or the Senator?


BOTH!
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Re: Not again!!!

Postby powerboatr » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:51 pm

that would be pretty far fetched, as its a twin screw with controlled pitch and a bow thruster. they could have made turns pretty well. in fact this class of ship can turn really well just using the screws, it makes alots of noise and kicks up lots of ocean but it will twist
if they had a propulsion casualty that could cause them to flounder. but all four turbines (dc 10 jet engines) going off line at the same time is slimmmmmm as well you know. they could have been just running two of the main propulsion engines, but if one shut down the other is strong enough to maintain forward speed and then one of the other two could be lighted off and brought online
and two of the three gas turbine powered a/c generators are always online, no excuses. even though the entire ship can run on just one, they use separate service tanks for fuel and the fuel that is brought in to the service tanks is striped and filtered constantly.

then if there was a major system casualty, they would have had more than the normal watch team up and about, including the captain and exec officer.
exec office is casualty team leader and would have been knee deep in engineering department helping to work the problem

not to mention the horns and lights to alert possible incoming ship traffic.
lets hope this is not a true rumor about a catastrophic systems failure
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