police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

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powerboatr
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police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby powerboatr » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:55 pm

ALL
I need some smart minds here to guide me to the answer.
my community in within wood county, we are Gated and considered private property, (no we are not a wealthy entity, its a lake access fishing neighborhood)
our sheriff, fire, ambulance will gladly come through our gates to provide services if called. and they are pretty fast considering how big our county is and the manning levels, usually within 5 minutes, so if your needing an ambulance..get your neighbor to drive you to town, and if a robbery or such, dispatch the perp and call the coroner

BUT our sheriff refuses to patrol our streets, we do not desire traffic stops or enforcement, just patrol on a routine basis to fly the flag and let the 1000 residents know they are checking out the neighborhood.

His reasoning is that the state constitution does not allow leos to patrol or provide traffic enforcement on private property.

I cannot find the verse in the state constitution that expressly prohibits them from patrolling. he is admit that it prohibits using tax dollars to pay for the patrols, HMMMM we pay county taxes (alot of them) .

now let me say the two investigators that are working the crack issue in our community , do come into the community to watch and gather evidence and have made a few arrests..... BUT we get zero drive through by deputies unless 911 is called for service

thanks
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C-dub
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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby C-dub » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:14 pm

I'm not an expert, but think the Sheriff is probably correct about patrolling private property. IDK about the state constitution thing, but think about it. If this were 1000 acres owned by a single person LE wouldn't have any right to just drive in and patrol. Sure, they could come to investigate a crime, but until then I don't think they can come in.

The caveat that I'm not sure about is when they've been invited or requested as you've indicated. Since ya'll do pay taxes that would presumably include the services of the Sheriff I am at a loss to explain his reluctance.
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WTR
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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby WTR » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:18 pm

Unless the roads are deeded to the County or State, no one is going to patrol .

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Bitter Clinger
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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby Bitter Clinger » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:36 pm

How many gates does your community have? Manned or unmanned? Do you have an HOA? Do you pay dues? Are your reserves fully funded? Can you afford to pay for a patrol? Is your community considered "limited access"? Does the HOA have any responsibility for limiting access or to provide "security"?

Here is why I ask. The DPD will patrol our gated community in Dallas IF they have the time, but as we know, Dallas is presently understaffed and matters of life and limb are first priority - so practically speaking we almost never see them on patrol on our private streets. They do respond rapidly if we have an issue, just last week we had a homeless trespasser and DPD responded quickly with a drive through (but the trespasser got away).

If you are having issues, then it may make sense to pay for a private patrol, but where you are I would hope its not necessary :shock:
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flechero
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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby flechero » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:49 am

Tell him if he can't give you the statute, you'll head the committee to elect a new sheriff when his term is up. I'm sure if the community banded together, he'd worry!

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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby chamberc » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:09 am

powerboatr wrote:ALL
I need some smart minds here to guide me to the answer.
my community in within wood county, we are Gated and considered private property, (no we are not a wealthy entity, its a lake access fishing neighborhood)
our sheriff, fire, ambulance will gladly come through our gates to provide services if called. and they are pretty fast considering how big our county is and the manning levels, usually within 5 minutes, so if your needing an ambulance..get your neighbor to drive you to town, and if a robbery or such, dispatch the perp and call the coroner

BUT our sheriff refuses to patrol our streets, we do not desire traffic stops or enforcement, just patrol on a routine basis to fly the flag and let the 1000 residents know they are checking out the neighborhood.

His reasoning is that the state constitution does not allow leos to patrol or provide traffic enforcement on private property.

I cannot find the verse in the state constitution that expressly prohibits them from patrolling. he is admit that it prohibits using tax dollars to pay for the patrols, HMMMM we pay county taxes (alot of them) .

now let me say the two investigators that are working the crack issue in our community , do come into the community to watch and gather evidence and have made a few arrests..... BUT we get zero drive through by deputies unless 911 is called for service

thanks


We also live in a gated community here in Las Colinas. The police do not patrol but instead we have our own manned gates and patrol. The police will respond to any crime, but do not patrol because it's private property.
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powerboatr
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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby powerboatr » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:17 am

this is what i have found so far to allow patrols, it seems pretty straight forward, we petition the county commissioners, sheriff has to develop costs and we pay for it. It is a HOA and we have two gates, no gate sentries, they are all coded for key fobs or cards . I am the gate keeper and load or unload access.
we can easily cover costs of new signage and i expect off cuff price per month for patrol shouldn't exceed 2k? Our residents pay mucho taxes already for county services, hopefully we work a deal. we cannot afford armed security plus all the ancillary costs associated with that
our association owns the entire road and its easements 20 feet of each side of the road itself
TRANSPORTATION CODE
TITLE 7. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
SUBTITLE C. RULES OF THE ROAD
CHAPTER 542. GENERAL PROVISIONS
SUBCHAPTER A. APPLICABILITY


Sec. 542.008. TRAFFIC REGULATIONS: PRIVATE SUBDIVISIONS IN CERTAIN MUNICIPALITIES. (a) This section applies only to a subdivision in which the roads are privately owned or maintained that is located in a municipality with a population of 300 or more.
(b) On petition of 25 percent of the property owners residing in the subdivision or on the request of the governing body of the entity that maintains the roads, the governing body of the municipality may extend by ordinance any traffic rules that apply to a road owned by the municipality, or by the county in which the municipality is located, to the roads in the subdivision so that the roads of the subdivision are under the same traffic rules, if the governing body of the municipality finds the ordinance in the interest of the municipality generally. A petition under this subsection must specify the traffic rules that are sought to be extended. The ordinance may extend any or all of the requested rules.
(c) As a condition of extending a traffic rule under Subsection (b), the governing body of the municipality may require that owners of property in the subdivision pay all or part of the cost of extending and enforcing the traffic rules in the subdivision, including the costs associated with the placement of necessary official traffic control devices. The governing body of the municipality shall consult with the appropriate law enforcement entity to determine the cost of enforcing traffic rules in the subdivision.
(d) On issuance of an order under this section, the private roads in the subdivision are considered to be public highways or streets for purposes of the application and enforcement of the specified traffic rules. The governing body of the municipality may place official traffic control devices on property abutting the private roads if:
(1) those devices relate to the specified traffic rule; and
(2) the consent of the owner of that property is obtained or an easement is available for the placement.

Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 913, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2001.



THANK YOU ALL for the input
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powerboatr
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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby powerboatr » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:55 am

update
went to see our county commissioner and he then went to see the judge that overseas the commissioners court.
this is where i get lost.
the judge told him it was a great idea and the only thing that stops the code from being used to help us, is the county is NOT a municipality????

How can a county not be a municipality?

something seems wierd
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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby WTR » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:18 pm

powerboatr wrote:update
went to see our county commissioner and he then went to see the judge that overseas the commissioners court.
this is where i get lost.
the judge told him it was a great idea and the only thing that stops the code from being used to help us, is the county is NOT a municipality????

How can a county not be a municipality?

something seems wierd


The County is not a municipality.

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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby OldCurlyWolf » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:28 pm

WTR wrote:
powerboatr wrote:update
went to see our county commissioner and he then went to see the judge that overseas the commissioners court.
this is where i get lost.
the judge told him it was a great idea and the only thing that stops the code from being used to help us, is the county is NOT a municipality????

How can a county not be a municipality?

something seems wierd


The County is not a municipality.

:iagree:
That is what I was taught when going to Pasadena Police Academy, lo those many years ago.
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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby TreyHouston » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:33 pm

Once a community is gated, it becomes private property. The community is then responsible for road, storm drainage and any other issues including salety. My HOA looked into it for our small neighborhood and it raises dues substantially!
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Don T
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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby Don T » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:24 pm

powerboatr wrote:update
How can a county not be a municipality?

something seems wierd


A municipality is a city, town or village. If you are not located in an area of the county which has "incorporated" as a city, town, or village, then you are not in a municipality. Different laws apply depending on whether you are in a municipality or just in the county.


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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby SewTexas » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:24 pm

this is why I keep telling our community, you DON'T want gates. It wouldn't work for ours anyway, but gates cause nothing but expense and trouble. when you have gates, you own the roads, like was mentioned above, your HOA is the basically the property owner, they can't just come on private property driving around looking for trouble, they have to have a reason, like a 911 call.
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Bitter Clinger
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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby Bitter Clinger » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:32 pm

SewTexas wrote:this is why I keep telling our community, you DON'T want gates. It wouldn't work for ours anyway, but gates cause nothing but expense and trouble. when you have gates, you own the roads, like was mentioned above, your HOA is the basically the property owner, they can't just come on private property driving around looking for trouble, they have to have a reason, like a 911 call.


Like most generalities, your statement does not always hold true. Ours is a "limited access" gated community in North Dallas - an extremely high density residential area. We have fully staffed gate houses, license plate and vehicle / driver imaging cameras and electronic entry control / record keeping. Ours is a "lock & leave" community and a properly managed limited access community has advantages over an uncontrolled neighborhood - for those folks that desire it. It is not for everyone admittedly and some people should simply just NOT ever live in an HOA, even a well managed one with a Board that exhibits common sense.
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Topic author
powerboatr
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Re: police/deputies/sherrifs and private communities

Postby powerboatr » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:04 pm

thanks for the great replies.
our residential neighborhood is within the counties boundaries, yes its gated and yes the POA is responsible for the roads. no question.
but how can the county, that controls us in taxes...not be a municipality ? they control all LEO, all fire and ambulance and they own the school buses that deliver the kids to and from the city school.

very confusing to say the least.
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