DC: Penetrating the Capital

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Paladin
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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#16

Post by Paladin »

srothstein wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:41 am
Paladin wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:34 am
philip964 wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:02 am https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/c ... stigators/

Capitol officer who murdered unarmed Ashley Babbitt should not be charged say investigators.
I'm genuinely curious to know their legal theory behind that. Must be one of those Clinton exceptions to all the rules?
There are long standing rules of engagement on the use of deadly force to protect areas or property deemed vital to national security. When i was guarding missiles in Germany, our rules included stopping people ten feet before they got to our fence-line and shooting anyone who touched or tried to breech the fence.

In the videos I saw, Babbitt was attempting to climb in to the restricted area through the broken window. It would not surprise me to find that the offices of the Speaker, and several other offices in the Capitol contain classified material that has been deemed vital to national security, justifying the shooting. You and I may not agree on how vital the material or area is, but I would be willing to bet that it was deemed that before the shooting occurred.

I do agree that the standard rules for law enforcement would not apply to someone attempting entry to an area so deemed.
Deadly force protecting military bases and nuclear weapons I can understand.

Nobody got shot in 2018:
Capitol Hill police said 128 people were arrested for "unlawfully demonstrating" outside of senators' offices and in the main rotunda of the Russell Senate Building.

Nor was the 2018 protest falsely labeled an "insurrection"
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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#17

Post by srothstein »

Paladin wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:19 pmNobody got shot in 2018:
Capitol Hill police said 128 people were arrested for "unlawfully demonstrating" outside of senators' offices and in the main rotunda of the Russell Senate Building.

Nor was the 2018 protest falsely labeled an "insurrection"
I fully agree about the false labeling of this as an insurrection, especially if they did not label CHAZ declaring independence as an insurrection.

My point was that entering the offices might be different from protesting in the rotunda. I don't know that it is or isn't declared an area vital to national security. I am pointing out that it might have been declared so, which would change the rules on deadly force. The other possibility that I saw raised in a police forum, especially since it appeared to be a plain clothes officer, was that Pelosi was still in the office at that time and the shooting was done by a bodyguard to protect his principal. I don't think she was actually there, in which case this doesn't apply, but it is possible she had not been evacuated at that point.

When I watched the video, it was clear to me that the window had been completely broken out of the frame and that Babbitt was climbing in. I can see her falling backwards from the window frame, as opposed to from a standing position outside it. That makes a difference in the justification for the shooting and it may be enough to justify it. We need to know more about the rules the officer was operating under to be sure. One good question to ask is if the Garner decision applies in this case and, if not, why not?

Garner is one of those cases that everyone understands the basics of, like Miranda and Escobido, but the fine points are missed sometimes. The basic ruling was that police could not shoot fleeing felons any more. The fine points of it are that they can shoot an unarmed fleeing felon if there is a greater potential harm to society in letting them escape than in using excessive force and shooting. The classic example is if you found and tried to arrest the Son of Sam killer during the middle of his spree and he tried to escape. You can prove he is very likely to kill again. You would be allowed to shoot to stop him to protect his future victim(s).

I think that in this case, Garner would apply in general, but might not if there was classified material in Pelosi's office that might have been obtained and used to harm the nation.
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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#18

Post by philip964 »

https://news.yahoo.com/fox-news-blasted ... 29776.html

Fox News is blasted for not covering live, the memorial to the Capital Police officer who died of a stroke later after the Capital penetration by protestors. The ceremony was held in the Capitol rotunda, only the 6th time in history for a private citizen. Rosa Parks and Rev. Billy Graham were two of the other six. His ashes will be buried at Arlington National Cemetary. The other MSM channels all covered the ceremony live.

BTW the story has fake news as it says casket instead of urn.

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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#19

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Catching up from the forum being down...
Busting into the Capital, smashing windows and breaking stuff inside is unlawful and should not be tolerated no matter which side does it. That is mob rule move and it does nothing to help further your cause. On the contrary, it set us back quite a bit, to a point from which it will be utterly difficult to recover from.

As far as the shooting of the USAF Vet Ashli, my emotions and feelings aside, she committed a crime of at least breaking and entering and was moving ahead. Whether or not that warrants the use of deadly force is not up to me, however, I’ve seen many posts here, rightfully in my opinion, where the sentiment was that if someone busts into your home deadly force is justified. I don’t like duty to retreat laws and I’m sure many of you don’t either, so...

In summary, all around unlawful act that resulted in deaths, injuries, property damage, and a major setback for the Patriot movements. There are better ways to express concern and drive your cause forward.
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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#20

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parabelum wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:13 am In summary, all around unlawful act that resulted in deaths, injuries, property damage, and a major setback for the Patriot movements. There are better ways to express concern and drive your cause forward.
I don't want to seem like I am spreading thoughts of any anti-government insurrection, because I am not. But what are the better ways you suggest? IMO, The vote no longer is a valid means to change. Texas and other like minded states attempted to go to the Courts, wasn't even entertained. Individuals attempted to go to the courts, again not even entertained. So, the way I see it, one either just gives up or ... what? I am one of those who now must eat any of the slop given to me, deviancy, murder, lies, cheating, the move to destroy the practice of my religion, and I firmly believe a soon to be attempt to fully disarm me and those who think as I. I don't know, kinda between a rock and a hard place. I know I have to live within this new world order, so I will do my best, while trying to maintain my Christian world view. :tiphat:
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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#21

Post by parabelum »

DEB wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:41 am
parabelum wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:13 am In summary, all around unlawful act that resulted in deaths, injuries, property damage, and a major setback for the Patriot movements. There are better ways to express concern and drive your cause forward.
I don't want to seem like I am spreading thoughts of any anti-government insurrection, because I am not. But what are the better ways you suggest? IMO, The vote no longer is a valid means to change. Texas and other like minded states attempted to go to the Courts, wasn't even entertained. Individuals attempted to go to the courts, again not even entertained. So, the way I see it, one either just gives up or ... what? I am one of those who now must eat any of the slop given to me, deviancy, murder, lies, cheating, the move to destroy the practice of my religion, and I firmly believe a soon to be attempt to fully disarm me and those who think as I. I don't know, kinda between a rock and a hard place. I know I have to live within this new world order, so I will do my best, while trying to maintain my Christian world view. :tiphat:
Yes, I concur that it is a conundrum that we find ourselves in. My personal take is that we need to be more strategic in terms of achieving long term goals by working on expanding our gains from our local ecosystems outwards.
Legal political activism in full swing focusing not only on Senate, House etc. but all the way down to the school boards, commissioners, essentially every single elected office no matter how small.
While this may not be true across the board, many sat on their behinds and only got active when the elections are at the State or Federal level, bypassing council meetings, school boards and such. And I get it. No everyone has time to be fully plugged in everywhere, but, that is a blind spot that the enemy of our Freedoms has been very diligent in seizing, and in turn, we must regain ground there.
We didn’t get into this pickle overnight and we surely won’t get out of it soon. But, there’s hope as the Libs are even worse at governing then the Rs. The time is not on their side, remember the Alinsky’s “a tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag” quote...That is why they will do everything possible to poke at you in an effort to elicit a irrational and unlawful response that will be used to further clobber away the Rights from you.

Patience is the key, along with community organizing (yes, that is the tactic of the enemy of Freedoms and guess what...it is working), local level political involving, working on public relation/image building etc. We have sat on our butts and have allowed the communist pigs to define us through propaganda and community activism. That must be countered through some of the things I wrote above, but smashing windows, breaking into buildings and/or engaging in unlawful behavior will do zero to get us where we need to be.
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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#22

Post by philip964 »

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/man-who- ... 068fbdc9cd

Man with horns who penetrated the Capitol transferred to a Virginia where he could receive the organic diet he said he needed.

Trump supporter, do you think?

https://thenationalpulse.com/breaking/c ... -not-true/

CNN quietly reports story they ran about the Capital officer dying after being struck by a fire extinguisher are not true.

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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#23

Post by philip964 »

parabelum wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:13 am Catching up from the forum being down...
Busting into the Capital, smashing windows and breaking stuff inside is unlawful and should not be tolerated no matter which side does it. That is mob rule move and it does nothing to help further your cause. On the contrary, it set us back quite a bit, to a point from which it will be utterly difficult to recover from.

As far as the shooting of the USAF Vet Ashli, my emotions and feelings aside, she committed a crime of at least breaking and entering and was moving ahead. Whether or not that warrants the use of deadly force is not up to me, however, I’ve seen many posts here, rightfully in my opinion, where the sentiment was that if someone busts into your home deadly force is justified. I don’t like duty to retreat laws and I’m sure many of you don’t either, so...

In summary, all around unlawful act that resulted in deaths, injuries, property damage, and a major setback for the Patriot movements. There are better ways to express concern and drive your cause forward.
I agree, the storming of the Capitol was a disaster for the conservative movement. It was wrong and then it was boneheaded to boot. We are not about that.

I suspect the people in charge of the Capitol, though about it, talked about it, predicted it would happen, hoped it would happen and then decided not to prepare the Capitol, so it could happen.

Trump unfortunately wasn’t playing 3D chess or even good 2D chess when he organized “ fight the steal “.

After a summer of riots, murders, property damage, burning, statue tipping all over the Blue part of the country, and with hardly any mention other than mostly peaceful from the MSM, this event becomes page one forever. The Tonight Show had like a solemn memorial for days on their show.

Yes people did bad things, all branded as right wing conservative, and now they all say Trump made me do it.

Instead of the press having to say 700,000 people showed up to peacefully protest a stolen election, they act as if everyone there committed a crime

We all saw the videos of Capital police opening locked doors moving aside barricades and waving people into their building, their house. We saw people looking around taking pictures, walking between the velvet ropes, smiling.

They did not topple one statue, set nothing on fire, did not vandalize a single painting, I suspect many wiped their feet.

Yet a few broke windows, and sat in Nancy’s desk. One person was murdered by a Capital police officer ( do they not have tasers) One woman was trampled and a Capital Police officer died in the hospital from a stroke suffered at his desk. Since then two Capital Police officers have committed suicide. And the death toll from this horrific event is rammed down our throats daily.

There are obviously two standards one lenient for liberals one throw the book at them for conservatives.

As Trump and his family are arrested in the coming years, let’s remember this standard we have now.

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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#24

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https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/18/politics ... index.html

6 Capitol police officers currently on suspension for their actions during the penetration of the Capital 36 more under investigation. Apparently taking a selfie with a penetrator is against the code of conduct.

"That guy who supposedly “carried Zip Ties into the Capitol” (suggesting he intended to take hostages)? Turns out he found them on a table inside the building and grabbed them to keep the police from using them on the protesters."

https://issuesinsights.com/2021/02/19/e ... -protests/
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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#25

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I keep trying. I'm stubborn...but maybe I'm just stupid, too.

Had a post-freeze phone conversation with a left-leaning friend yesterday, and he and I had long ago agreed that we simply can't talk politics. But somehow somewhere the phrase "armed insurrection" at the capitol on January 6 got dropped into the conversation. I said that 4 handguns and one "prohibited weapon" (that presumably being the ridiculous "QAnon Shaman" who had an American flag tied to a spear) were recovered from the people who breached the capitol building. That 4 handguns not only don't constitute an armed insurrection in anybody's imagination, but that in most states that would more accurately just be "the middle left-hand shelf of the gun safe."

He said I was nuts and asked me if I hadn't seen all the news stories showing rioters waving guns around as they breached the capitol. I told him to send me links to some of those news videos. Haven't heard back from him.

Sigh. But this is what we face. Perception, impressions, and assumptions among the honest, and agenda-driven malfeasance among the...less honest. You can't argue that with facts. In his mind, he very clearly remembers scores of men carrying "assault rifles" as they broke into the capital building, holding Capitol Police officers at gunpoint. He remembers it like he was there to witness it himself.

And when I asked him if he also remembers "protestors" carrying AK-47s at several BLM "protests" last spring and summer and CHAZ "warlord" Raz Simone handing out guns to minors in Seattle after the Capitol Hill district was declared a sovereign country independent U.S. law...and, no; he didn't remember any of that.
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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#26

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Rafe wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:51 am I keep trying. I'm stubborn...but maybe I'm just stupid, too.

Had a post-freeze phone conversation with a left-leaning friend yesterday, and he and I had long ago agreed that we simply can't talk politics. But somehow somewhere the phrase "armed insurrection" at the capitol on January 6 got dropped into the conversation. I said that 4 handguns and one "prohibited weapon" (that presumably being the ridiculous "QAnon Shaman" who had an American flag tied to a spear) were recovered from the people who breached the capitol building. That 4 handguns not only don't constitute an armed insurrection in anybody's imagination, but that in most states that would more accurately just be "the middle left-hand shelf of the gun safe."

He said I was nuts and asked me if I hadn't seen all the news stories showing rioters waving guns around as they breached the capitol. I told him to send me links to some of those news videos. Haven't heard back from him.

Sigh. But this is what we face. Perception, impressions, and assumptions among the honest, and agenda-driven malfeasance among the...less honest. You can't argue that with facts. In his mind, he very clearly remembers scores of men carrying "assault rifles" as they broke into the capital building, holding Capitol Police officers at gunpoint. He remembers it like he was there to witness it himself.

And when I asked him if he also remembers "protestors" carrying AK-47s at several BLM "protests" last spring and summer and CHAZ "warlord" Raz Simone handing out guns to minors in Seattle after the Capitol Hill district was declared a sovereign country independent U.S. law...and, no; he didn't remember any of that.
MSNBC has been offering 24-7 brainwashing on the subject...
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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#27

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DEB wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:41 am
parabelum wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:13 am In summary, all around unlawful act that resulted in deaths, injuries, property damage, and a major setback for the Patriot movements. There are better ways to express concern and drive your cause forward.
I don't want to seem like I am spreading thoughts of any anti-government insurrection, because I am not. But what are the better ways you suggest? IMO, The vote no longer is a valid means to change. Texas and other like minded states attempted to go to the Courts, wasn't even entertained. Individuals attempted to go to the courts, again not even entertained. So, the way I see it, one either just gives up or ... what? I am one of those who now must eat any of the slop given to me, deviancy, murder, lies, cheating, the move to destroy the practice of my religion, and I firmly believe a soon to be attempt to fully disarm me and those who think as I. I don't know, kinda between a rock and a hard place. I know I have to live within this new world order, so I will do my best, while trying to maintain my Christian world view. :tiphat:
IMHO, SCOTUS set the stage here by refusing to hear the Texas lawsuit. SCOTUS is the only court that has jurisdiction on that matter and by refusing to decide it, they left an open question as to the validity of the election results and essentially announced that this dispute needed to be resolved outside of the legal system. That leaves much less desirable options, unfortunately.

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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#28

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

Paladin wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:12 am
Rafe wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:51 am I keep trying. I'm stubborn...but maybe I'm just stupid, too.

Had a post-freeze phone conversation with a left-leaning friend yesterday, and he and I had long ago agreed that we simply can't talk politics. But somehow somewhere the phrase "armed insurrection" at the capitol on January 6 got dropped into the conversation. I said that 4 handguns and one "prohibited weapon" (that presumably being the ridiculous "QAnon Shaman" who had an American flag tied to a spear) were recovered from the people who breached the capitol building. That 4 handguns not only don't constitute an armed insurrection in anybody's imagination, but that in most states that would more accurately just be "the middle left-hand shelf of the gun safe."

He said I was nuts and asked me if I hadn't seen all the news stories showing rioters waving guns around as they breached the capitol. I told him to send me links to some of those news videos. Haven't heard back from him.

Sigh. But this is what we face. Perception, impressions, and assumptions among the honest, and agenda-driven malfeasance among the...less honest. You can't argue that with facts. In his mind, he very clearly remembers scores of men carrying "assault rifles" as they broke into the capital building, holding Capitol Police officers at gunpoint. He remembers it like he was there to witness it himself.

And when I asked him if he also remembers "protestors" carrying AK-47s at several BLM "protests" last spring and summer and CHAZ "warlord" Raz Simone handing out guns to minors in Seattle after the Capitol Hill district was declared a sovereign country independent U.S. law...and, no; he didn't remember any of that.
MSNBC has been offering 24-7 brainwashing on the subject...
Persisting social crisis, the emergence of a charismatic personality, and the exploitation of mass media to obtain public confidence would be the steppingstones in the piecemeal transformation of the United States into a highly controlled society.
-Zbigniew Brzezinski (BETWEEN TWO AGES)
Let's put aside for a minute the fact that "insurrections" are not always a bad thing. No less a source than the US Declaration of Independence clearly states that insurrections are the right of the people whenever they feel that their government is no longer protecting their interests. That document, of course, just restates the same principles that were so eloquently explained by Thomas Locke.

This was not an "armed insurrection". The rioters were clearly trying to delay the vote count because they felt that more investigation was needed of what were, frankly, incredulous election results showing that Biden was exponentially more popular than any Presidential candidate, pretty much ever, despite drawing smaller crowds to his rallies than the attendance at an average middle school sporting event.

But these folks were not trying to overthrow the government and replace it with another. They also were not declaring independence and attempting to set up a separate country. We had REAL insurrection attempts this past year in Seattle and Portland. If the media wants to focus on insurrections being evil, they have several good examples, but the Capitol riot is NOT one of them.

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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#29

Post by philip964 »



Lol

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Re: DC: Penetrating the Capital

#30

Post by philip964 »

http://redpilled.ca/redpilled-media-exc ... n-his-gun/

Female former veteran penetrator who was murdered by a shooter who remains unidentified in violation of DC law, is shown with out required tape on end of his gun in photos. Some suspect he is an unarmed security guard who brought his own gun to work. He is also shown with poor trigger control unlike the officers he works with.

Tape is changed every day and I suspect is to identify fellow officers.
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