Internet forum suicide

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atxgun
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Internet forum suicide

#1

Post by atxgun » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:54 am

I am very relieved of the outcome of the election. Let me be clear though, I don't support Obama and I'm sure I'm going to fight against many of his initiatives. I've been very involved w/ the republican party in the past year and a half. I went to the TX state republican convention as an alternate and actually got seated. I've worked my butt off for local republican candidates. However I truly believe things would be much worse off in the long run for the country w/ McCain. There, I said it.


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Re: Internet forum suicide

#2

Post by aardwolf » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:51 am

I hope the GOP learns from their defeat and nominates a conservative in 2016.
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Re: Internet forum suicide

#3

Post by TxDrifter » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:35 am

Exactly. Conservatives need to only run on the principles we believe in, but also bring that unwaveringly back to Washington. Too much of this bi-partisanship is move left rather than work up the middle or, dare I say it, move right for once. Conservative principles have kept Texas' economy one of the best in the nation. It is a wonder it is not noticed more.

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Re: Internet forum suicide

#4

Post by waterpump1 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:41 am

TxDrifter wrote:Exactly. Conservatives need to only run on the principles we believe in, but also bring that unwaveringly back to Washington. Too much of this bi-partisanship is move left rather than work up the middle or, dare I say it, move right for once. Conservative principles have kept Texas' economy one of the best in the nation. It is a wonder it is not noticed more.

:txflag:

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :txflag:
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Re: Internet forum suicide

#5

Post by catwoman » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:42 am

TxDrifter wrote:Exactly. Conservative principles have kept Texas' economy one of the best in the nation. It is a wonder it is not noticed more.
:txflag:


probably be considered racist...


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Re: Internet forum suicide

#6

Post by KBCraig » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:27 am

aardwolf wrote:I hope the GOP learns from their defeat and nominates a conservative in 2016.

A conservative ran this year. The GOP mocked him and laughed at him.

Honestly, the better solution would be for the GOP to just fold and join the DNC, since it's all one big happy party anyway. Since they are interested in "electable" candidates rather than principle, they'd stand a better chance of winning if they ran as Democrats.

We don't have a two-party system, we have two factions fighting for control of the Big Government party.

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Re: Internet forum suicide

#7

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:32 am

My observation are thus:

I see strong parallels between the ending of the Whig party in the early 1850s and the Republican party today. Even back then, the Whig party appealed more to the professional and business classes as opposed to the Democrats, who appealed to the poor by ridiculing Whig pretensions. Just as with the Republican party today, the Whig party suffered from factionalism. And as with the Republican party's internal divisions over abortion rights today in which the party's official platform is pro-life even though there are factions within the party which are pro-choice, the Whigs were fractured over the issue of slavery, and whether or not slavery should be allowed to expand into the territories or contained within the southern states. In short, the Whigs had (for the time) a "big tent," and it killed them.

The Republican party which sprang from its ruins was ideologically anti-slavery. Party members were not in agreement on how slavery ought to be eradicated, but all agreed that eradication was the long term goal. This gave the party a unifying principle around which to coalesce despite whatever other views the members held as individuals, and it served them well. The Republican party is today divided between social conservatives and social liberals. As if that isn't enough, the party is also divided between big government conservatives and small government conservatives; between neocons and paleocons; between globalists and isolationists; between socially liberal fiscal conservatives and socially conservative fiscal liberals; between those who are hard core 2nd Amendment defenders and those who can live with "reasonable restrictions;" etc., etc. It is no wonder that people are considering abandoning the party. The party no longer knows what it stands for. The party no longer has a single unifying principle around which people will rally.

"Big Tent" policies only work in one arena, and that is Christian evangelism. Paul wrote that he was all things to all people in the pursuit of winning souls for the Kingdom. It works in that arena because religious matters are necessarily matters of the heart, and winning souls for your faith is a matter of individual relationships. That doesn't work when you are talking about a political party with membership numbering well over 100 million which is trying to find a unifying principle or set of principles around which to coalesce.

Because of this, I think that the Republican party is facing a fundamental choice in which it must clearly, and unequivocally restate its principles regarding a few, non-negotiable, core values; or face extinction. The politicians the party supports must pledge to promote and act on those core values without compromise. Period. This is necessary not only for the promotion of those core values themselves, but also for the purpose of giving party members a set of non-negotiables with which its members can self-identify and around which the party can organize itself internally.

Today, the party claims social conservatism, but it often supports and helps to elect politicians who are not, and those politicians vote on national social policies. The party claims fiscal conservatism, but it often supports and helps to elect politicians who are not, and those politicians vote for policies which raid the national treasury. The party claims defense of the 2nd Amendment, but it often supports and helps to elect politicians who vote for "reasonable restrictions" on that right.

If the Republican party leadership fails to make the choice to enforce its platform, and also fails to communicate this new direction to the rank and file, then the party will die. It's that simple. Personally, I think we will be seeing the end of the Republican party within most of our lifetimes. The reason I think this is that, increasingly, people are no longer identifying themselves by their party affiliation, but rather they are identifying themselves by their ideological core values. "I'm a conservative," or "I'm a liberal," or "I'm a libertarian." How many times have you heard someone say, "I didn't change. My party abandoned me."

My personal response is that I am probably going to re-register as an Independent now that this election cycle is over. Why? Because I am a conservative first before I am a Republican or any other party affiliation. I don't believe that the Republican party is interested any longer in practicing those conservative core values it claims to uphold. Whenever a party starts to see me as a reliable cog in its machine that will run without squeaking as long as it squirts a little oil my way once in a while, that is the time for me to think about moving on.
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Re: Internet forum suicide

#8

Post by Liberty » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:08 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:My observation are thus:

I see strong parallels between the ending of the Whig party in the early 1850s and the Republican party today. Even back then, the Whig party appealed more to the professional and business classes as opposed to the Democrats, who appealed to the poor by ridiculing Whig pretensions. Just as with the Republican party today, the Whig party suffered from factionalism. And as with the Republican party's internal divisions over abortion rights today in which the party's official platform is pro-life even though there are factions within the party which are pro-choice, the Whigs were fractured over the issue of slavery, and whether or not slavery should be allowed to expand into the territories or contained within the southern states. In short, the Whigs had (for the time) a "big tent," and it killed them.

.

Interesting,
The Democrats are even more fractionalized than the Republicans. The Difference is they were able to nominate someone who could not only mobilize their hard core base, but also the disenfranchised and young people who are not normally associated with the party. The Republicans picked an old hack who has been a party fixture forever. Who stood for obstructionism within his own party.

Every one of the Conservatives that ran in the primaries was a better choice than McCain. The Republicans did the same thing they did in 96'. Bill Clinton was Vulnerable and recovering from being the Impeached. So they nominate a tired old liberal Senator. This is a time proven technique for losing an election.

There is room for moderates in the Republican Party. They can make good Senators and Reps Judges and so forth that represent their consistency. We just don't need moderates for presidential candidates, or in conservative districts.

There is no advantage to being independent. Being Independent only means that you withdraw yourself completely from the nomination process. Not only on presidential cycles but the other elections also. You may want to check into the Libertarian Party.
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Re: Internet forum suicide

#9

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:14 am

The thing is, Liberty, I'm not a libertarian. I am socially conservative, and certain of my core values on which I cannot compromise would not be well received in the Libertarian party.
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Re: Internet forum suicide

#10

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:27 am

Liberty wrote:The Democrats are even more fractionalized than the Republicans.

In many ways, yes they are. But they have a single unifying theme, and that is that we are not responsible for our choices or what happens to us in life - government is. Government is the answer for all that ails us. The "disenfranchisement" is largely a myth promoted by the Democrat party, because people like nothing better than to be the victim. If you're the victim, nothing is your fault. That is a powerful narcotic; powerful enough to numb otherwise competing interests into cooperation.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
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Re: Internet forum suicide

#11

Post by anygunanywhere » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:45 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:The thing is, Liberty, I'm not a libertarian. I am socially conservative, and certain of my core values on which I cannot compromise would not be well received in the Libertarian party.



Is there a political party whose platform you agree with 100% of the time? Is there a candidate you agre with 100% of the time?

Which ones are most important to your core values?

I have been the proponent of voting for the candidate that is closest to my core beliefs that has the best chance of winning.

No more. I am with KBCraig now. Vote who represents you!

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Re: Internet forum suicide

#12

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:56 am

anygunanywhere wrote:Vote who represents you!

And if that is the case, then why is a party affiliation important? That's why I'm not so upset by the idea of becoming an Independent. Independents can still vote in the Texas primary, so party membership is not necessary for that. Party membership isn't necessary for me to vote in the general election. So if I am disenchanted with my current party, what motivation is there for me to stay in it since I can still vote for the candidates of my choice?
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Re: Internet forum suicide

#13

Post by anygunanywhere » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:00 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:Vote who represents you!

And if that is the case, then why is a party affiliation important? That's why I'm not so upset by the idea of becoming an Independent. Independents can still vote in the Texas primary, so party membership is not necessary for that. Party membership isn't necessary for me to vote in the general election. So if I am disenchanted with my current party, what motivation is there for me to stay in it since I can still vote for the candidates of my choice?


I never said it was. I stopped claiming alegiance to the GOP when I saw Bush 43 throw support to illegals. I even questioned Bush 41 raising taxes. Klin-ton kept me in.

I owe the GOP nothing. They abandoned me.

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Re: Internet forum suicide

#14

Post by Liberty » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:09 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:Vote who represents you!

And if that is the case, then why is a party affiliation important? That's why I'm not so upset by the idea of becoming an Independent. Independents can still vote in the Texas primary, so party membership is not necessary for that. Party membership isn't necessary for me to vote in the general election. So if I am disenchanted with my current party, what motivation is there for me to stay in it since I can still vote for the candidates of my choice?

In Texas Your Party Afiliation is determined by which caucus or primary you participate in. You can only pick one per election cycle. Independents are defined by those who don't participate.
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Re: Internet forum suicide

#15

Post by KaiserB » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:57 am

aardwolf wrote:I hope the GOP learns from their defeat and nominates a conservative in 2016.


I hope they nominate a conservative in 2012... I cant wait 8 years

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