AR15 Upper won't match to lower. Help!

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Velocity
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AR15 Upper won't match to lower. Help!

#1

Post by Velocity »

I posted the below on ar15.com as well - my one reply so far was that the RR lower appears out of spec. Anyone have any other comments/ideas?

---

My first AR15 with a Bushmaster XM15-E2S. I wanted a flattop, so I bought a CMMG complete upper and did a switch with the original permanent-carry-handle (A2?) upper. Life is good for a year with my Bushy lower and CMMG upper - no problems.

Just before the election, I decided I wanted to get another lower to match with the complete CMMG upper, and put my original Bushmaster back together.

I bought a Rock River stripped lower (marked LAR-15 / 5.56cal) and a DPMS lower parts kit with a Tapco stock - took until today to get it all assembled. Everything went together ok, with the exception of the rear takedown pin being VERY tight - was not hard at all to get in into the lower, but once the rear takedown detent and spring were in place and the stock was tightened, it's VERY tough to push out the takedown pin.

That's bad, but what's worse (and the real reason for my post) is that neither my Bushmaster NOR my CMMG upper will match up with the now-assembled Rock River lower. The front pivot pin goes in fine, but when trying to "pivot the upper closed" the rear takedown catch on the upper seems not to want to "mate" with the Rock River lower. It simply won't close all the way - feels like the RR lower is too "short" by a millimeter or so to fit either of the uppers correctly.

Here's a picture of the CMMG upper and Rock River lower "about" to close - you can see the wear marks (circled) where the upper and lower rub when I try to pivot the upper into the lower. In this picture, I've also removed the buffer/buffer spring, and the bolt carrier group, just to eliminate those as problems. The same issue happens with those parts in place.

Image

Help! Any ideas?
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Re: AR15 Upper won't match to lower. Help!

#2

Post by KaiserB »

Looks like your lower may have been compressed a bit making it to narrow for the upper lug. If you can get the parts together and they are just tight, I would probably leave it alone as a tight gun is an accurate one. Otherwise you may check the upper on another lower or another upper on your lower to see which one is out of spec and have a smith fix the issue.

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Re: AR15 Upper won't match to lower. Help!

#3

Post by Velocity »

KaiserB wrote:Looks like your lower may have been compressed a bit making it to narrow for the upper lug. If you can get the parts together and they are just tight, I would probably leave it alone as a tight gun is an accurate one. Otherwise you may check the upper on another lower or another upper on your lower to see which one is out of spec and have a smith fix the issue.
Turns out Rock River lowers are tight enough that it's actually a FAQ (that I didn't find without assistance!) on AR15.com - http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=282974" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Using the instructions in the above FAQ I managed to wrestle it into place. Will put a hundred or so rounds thru it tomorrow, hopefully that'll get it settled in.
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Re: AR15 Upper won't match to lower. Help!

#4

Post by flintknapper »

Velocity wrote:
KaiserB wrote:Looks like your lower may have been compressed a bit making it to narrow for the upper lug. If you can get the parts together and they are just tight, I would probably leave it alone as a tight gun is an accurate one. Otherwise you may check the upper on another lower or another upper on your lower to see which one is out of spec and have a smith fix the issue.
Turns out Rock River lowers are tight enough that it's actually a FAQ (that I didn't find without assistance!) on AR15.com - http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=282974" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Using the instructions in the above FAQ I managed to wrestle it into place. Will put a hundred or so rounds thru it tomorrow, hopefully that'll get it settled in.

Yup, "RRA's" run the gamut from "it will wear in" to "no way, no how". ;-)

Hopefully...yours will wear in.

The following is from RB Precisions website. I use this method during assembly rather than removing metal from the lower receiver or the upper receiver lug. Works every time.

All of the Rock River Arms lowers are an extremely tight fit, they need to be worked in the following way :


For the love of God make sure there is no rounds in rifle and it is on safe, the hammer will need to be back in the cocked position!!! Our lawyers make us tell you that death is possible if this is loaded when you perform this, we like our customers please do not shoot yourself!

1. Assemble the front pivot pin to the upper.

2. Lubricate the rear lug completely with a light grease (best) or oil, lube the inside of the receiver also.

3. Ensure the rear takedown pin is completely out in the open position (detent is holding)

4. Slowly push the 1/2's together, they will stick (THIS IS NORMAL) it will most likely not close completely at first this is normal.

5. Open and close, repeat being careful to keep the halves aligned, do not slam them together but continue to use increasing force to fit together, when almost completely together use a nylon or soft rubber mallet to tap upper receiver into final position.

6. When they are seated (little to no gap between upper and lower) lightly tap the rear takedown pin into place. This will seem scary to a beginner but it is natural for a tight fit.

7. You may see some of the anodized removed from the rear lug at the corners, AGAIN, this is normal.

8. You may have some difficulty separating the upper and lower, with barrel up and rifle unsupported (hanging in the air) grasp the rifle by handguard and give a "smack" to the top of the buttstock, you may need to do this repeatable, usually 5-10 times will do the trick.


I think what the above really means is: We need to check our tooling and stacked tolerances more often.

An "overly tight" fit between the upper and lower on an AR does nothing for accuracy. It just makes it a pain in the rear to assemble/disassemble/clean.
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Re: AR15 Upper won't match to lower. Help!

#5

Post by KC5AV »

Velocity wrote:I posted the below on ar15.com as well - my one reply so far was that the RR lower appears out of spec. Anyone have any other comments/ideas?

---
I bought a Rock River stripped lower (marked LAR-15 / 5.56cal) and a DPMS lower parts kit with a Tapco stock - took until today to get it all assembled. Everything went together ok, with the exception of the rear takedown pin being VERY tight - was not hard at all to get in into the lower, but once the rear takedown detent and spring were in place and the stock was tightened, it's VERY tough to push out the takedown pin.
I had what sounds like the same problem when I assembled my CMMG lower a few months back (I'm still waiting on my upper). I found that simply swapping the pin and spring with the front pivot pin and spring solved it. It's still a little bit tight, but I don't have any reason to believe that it won't loosen up over time.
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Re: AR15 Upper won't match to lower. Help!

#6

Post by Velocity »

KC5AV wrote:
Velocity wrote:I posted the below on ar15.com as well - my one reply so far was that the RR lower appears out of spec. Anyone have any other comments/ideas?

---
I bought a Rock River stripped lower (marked LAR-15 / 5.56cal) and a DPMS lower parts kit with a Tapco stock - took until today to get it all assembled. Everything went together ok, with the exception of the rear takedown pin being VERY tight - was not hard at all to get in into the lower, but once the rear takedown detent and spring were in place and the stock was tightened, it's VERY tough to push out the takedown pin.
I had what sounds like the same problem when I assembled my CMMG lower a few months back (I'm still waiting on my upper). I found that simply swapping the pin and spring with the front pivot pin and spring solved it. It's still a little bit tight, but I don't have any reason to believe that it won't loosen up over time.
I don't have my rifle in front of me to check, but going from memory, isn't the front pin ("pivot") a bit different than the rear pin ("takedown")? I thought the front had one side "flattened" or something? Again, going from memory, so I might be wrong here..
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Re: AR15 Upper won't match to lower. Help!

#7

Post by The Annoyed Man »

I have a home built carbine with a 16" M4 barreled upper assembly on a DPMS lower and it is a fairly loose fit. I can push both pins out with just finger pressure. OTH, my Bushmaster Varminter requires a nylon punch and a mallet to drive out the rear takedown pin, and a start with the punch and mallet to drive out the pivot pin. As it happens, the Bushmaster is very accurate, and the carbine... ...not so much.
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Re: AR15 Upper won't match to lower. Help!

#8

Post by KC5AV »

Velocity wrote:
KC5AV wrote:
Velocity wrote:I posted the below on ar15.com as well - my one reply so far was that the RR lower appears out of spec. Anyone have any other comments/ideas?

---
I bought a Rock River stripped lower (marked LAR-15 / 5.56cal) and a DPMS lower parts kit with a Tapco stock - took until today to get it all assembled. Everything went together ok, with the exception of the rear takedown pin being VERY tight - was not hard at all to get in into the lower, but once the rear takedown detent and spring were in place and the stock was tightened, it's VERY tough to push out the takedown pin.
I had what sounds like the same problem when I assembled my CMMG lower a few months back (I'm still waiting on my upper). I found that simply swapping the pin and spring with the front pivot pin and spring solved it. It's still a little bit tight, but I don't have any reason to believe that it won't loosen up over time.
I don't have my rifle in front of me to check, but going from memory, isn't the front pin ("pivot") a bit different than the rear pin ("takedown")? I thought the front had one side "flattened" or something? Again, going from memory, so I might be wrong here..
The pins and springs on my lower parts kit were identical.
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Re: AR15 Upper won't match to lower. Help!

#9

Post by match308 »

Had a similar situ w/ a DPMS build. At first I had to use a soft mallet to get them to mate, but they eventually wore in where I could just give it a sharp rap w/ the heel of my hand. It is easily my most accurate, I feel, due to the tight fit.
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