M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

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M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby Pawpaw » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:49 pm

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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby parabelum » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:07 pm

Thanks for sharing the info. I myself don't have one but it's good to know. Those sort of malfunctioning I'd expect from HiPoint...maybe. But S&W better get this addressed pronto before someone gets seriously hurt or worse.
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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby The Annoyed Man » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:24 pm

Wow. I own one, but have never had this problem. Has someone determined if ammo was a possible cause? I've had an AR15 slamfire when shooting some pretty hot handloads someone gave me, but nary a problem with the M&P15-22
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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby C-dub » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:48 pm

I haven't had an problems like this either after around 2-2.5k rounds.
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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby SigM4 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:51 pm

So five incidents warrant a firearm being banned? Several of which didn't even take place at events but rather were personal experiences by "instructors".

Me thinks this smells like someone (or some organization) doesn't like the increasing number of EBRs showing up to the events, of which I'm willing to guess the 15-22 makes up a large percentage of the non-10/22 category. The last comment is most telling "I’ve witnessed out-of-battery firing and squib from M&P 15/22’s twice but never from a 10/22.". Never? I'd wager to bet if anyone has been to enough Appleseed shoots you've seen a squib or two in a 10/22, especially given the myriad of different rifle configurations and crappy brands of ammo being run.

Sounds like some folks are getting their panties in a wad. Kind of like how USPSA's Single Stack rules were written solely for 1911s while neglecting others (Sig 220, S&W 4506, HK USPc45, etc). Sounds like they may be trying to ensure only "tradional" rifles are allowed without overtly stating it.
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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby txcharvel » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:43 am

I'm a big fan of Appleseed. In fact, I just participated in an event this past weekend. It was the second Appleseed for my oldest son and the first for my middle son. If you haven't done an Appleseed I highly recommend it.

The range this past weekend was .22lr only. In other events I've seen ARs and even an SKS. My .22lr is a Ruger 10/22 Talo edition that has a very tactical look (retracting/folding stock, rails, pistol grip, etc...). My middle son has a 10/22 with a Nordic Components conversion (again, very tactical looking). My oldest son has a traditional Marlin 795. Interestingly, my oldest scored the highest (much higher than me).

Side note, I had several issues with my 10/22 this past weekend including one failure to eject and several failures to fire. Might just be dirty.

Appleseed, in my opinion, is very apolitical. While it may be possible that a select group is trying to limit the types of rifles to the traditional looking variety, I highly doubt it. As with any firearms class, safety is a priority. Probably more so with Appleseed as they attract a lot of new and young shooters.

Again, if you haven't done an Appleseed I highly recommend it. Not only is the shooting method and instruction worth more that the price of admission, the history lesson you'll get is exceptional.


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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby The Marshal » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:23 am

C-dub wrote:I haven't had an problems like this either after around 2-2.5k rounds.


+1 !!

One day a family put about 550 rounds through it before handing it back to me, and then I did another 100-150 after that.
Never seen so much goo in a receiver before, however it never stopped working that day.

And this is the first I have ever heard anything but positive about this rifle.


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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby SHogun62 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:47 am

txcharvel wrote:I'm a big fan of Appleseed. In fact, I just participated in an event this past weekend. It was the second Appleseed for my oldest son and the first for my middle son. If you haven't done an Appleseed I highly recommend it.

The range this past weekend was .22lr only. In other events I've seen ARs and even an SKS. My .22lr is a Ruger 10/22 Talo edition that has a very tactical look (retracting/folding stock, rails, pistol grip, etc...). My middle son has a 10/22 with a Nordic Components conversion (again, very tactical looking). My oldest son has a traditional Marlin 795. Interestingly, my oldest scored the highest (much higher than me).

Side note, I had several issues with my 10/22 this past weekend including one failure to eject and several failures to fire. Might just be dirty.

Appleseed, in my opinion, is very apolitical. While it may be possible that a select group is trying to limit the types of rifles to the traditional looking variety, I highly doubt it. As with any firearms class, safety is a priority. Probably more so with Appleseed as they attract a lot of new and young shooters.

Again, if you haven't done an Appleseed I highly recommend it. Not only is the shooting method and instruction worth more that the price of admission, the history lesson you'll get is exceptional.



I just looked them up, and wow, it does seem like something that would be cool to participate in, especially since I've been wanting to extend my range capabilities. I can't argue with the price either...Free (Disabled) is always a fantastic value!

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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby Middle Age Russ » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:04 am

I agree with txcharvel. If you want to learn more about shooting a rifle (and a bit about history) go and shoot an Appleseed. I will definitely go again -- after working for a few weeks before-hand getting into and shooting from some of the positions. Fatigue and eyesight that isn't what it once was kept me from shooting better when I went.

As for banning the M&P 12/22s, Appleseed is very (appropriately, from my perspective) safety focused. I have owned an M&P 15/22 and never experienced any of the issues they have reported, but obviously others have had these issues. I wouldn't wager on the root cause of the issues being design or manufacture over something else, but when at an Appleseed event one follows their rules. I expect to follow the rules and instructions of whoever is running the line at any live-fire event, just like I expect shooters on any line I run to follow my rules and instructions.
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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby parabelum » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:16 am

I've only heard of slamfires with military rifles using civilian ammo, mostly garands with modern ammo. Not very common though, but it is definitely worth a ban until it is made safe if I owned the range.
With Garand, at least you know that this might happen with civilian modern ammo. You use surplus or Garand ammo and problem solved (still practice extreme caution of course).

I would suspect that many buy these .22s for their kids to plink with, making it even more dangerous when you have this sort of malfunction.

So, yes. I'd ban them until they (s&w) get this figured out.
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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby The Annoyed Man » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:04 pm

parabelum wrote:I've only heard of slamfires with military rifles using civilian ammo, mostly garands with modern ammo. Not very common though, but it is definitely worth a ban until it is made safe if I owned the range.
With Garand, at least you know that this might happen with civilian modern ammo. You use surplus or Garand ammo and problem solved (still practice extreme caution of course).

I would suspect that many buy these .22s for their kids to plink with, making it even more dangerous when you have this sort of malfunction.

So, yes. I'd ban them until they (s&w) get this figured out.

My only slam fires were experienced with a Bushmaster 24" Varminter I no longer own, shooting a really hot hunting handload a friend gave me to try out, which he had enjoyed great success with while deer hunting. I don't know the powder charge, but it was pushing a 65 grain Gameking at about 3100 fps from his 20" barreled rifle. I was with him on one such hunt when he took a doe from 90 yards out, right through the back of the head, with the bullet exiting between her eyes. She went instant rag doll. That seemed like a pretty effective round, and so I was eager to try some in my rifle to see how they shot. One trigger pull produced a quick bangbangbang, followed by a FTF which arrested the process. The guy to my left was looking over at me with saucer eyes.

I dropped the mag and set the rest of that ammo aside. :lol:
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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby bblhd672 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:26 pm

I was thinking about buying a M&P 15/22 since I have a M&P 15 already- sounds like I need to rethink that.

I've considered Is a Ruger 10/22 Takedown - is this a good quality .22 rifle if I wanted to do Appleseed?
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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby parabelum » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:13 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
parabelum wrote:I've only heard of slamfires with military rifles using civilian ammo, mostly garands with modern ammo. Not very common though, but it is definitely worth a ban until it is made safe if I owned the range.
With Garand, at least you know that this might happen with civilian modern ammo. You use surplus or Garand ammo and problem solved (still practice extreme caution of course).

I would suspect that many buy these .22s for their kids to plink with, making it even more dangerous when you have this sort of malfunction.

So, yes. I'd ban them until they (s&w) get this figured out.

My only slam fires were experienced with a Bushmaster 24" Varminter I no longer own, shooting a really hot hunting handload a friend gave me to try out, which he had enjoyed great success with while deer hunting. I don't know the powder charge, but it was pushing a 65 grain Gameking at about 3100 fps from his 20" barreled rifle. I was with him on one such hunt when he took a doe from 90 yards out, right through the back of the head, with the bullet exiting between her eyes. She went instant rag doll. That seemed like a pretty effective round, and so I was eager to try some in my rifle to see how they shot. One trigger pull produced a quick bangbangbang, followed by a FTF which arrested the process. The guy to my left was looking over at me with saucer eyes.

I dropped the mag and set the rest of that ammo aside. :lol:


So it became Bushmaster full auto just like that :lol:: :fire
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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby Middle Age Russ » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:46 pm

I've considered Is a Ruger 10/22 Takedown - is this a good quality .22 rifle if I wanted to do Appleseed?


For Appleseed, you'll want to outfit any gun with a simple military web sling and adjustable (preferably aperture) sights -- the latter if you want to shoot without optics. The 10/22 Takedown typically isn't set up with sling swivel studs, and the factory sights are not really what you want. I installed sling swivel studs on my wife's 10/22 Takedown, and also Nodak Spud sights since they include a section of picatinny rail for mounting an optic as well if you want. The other popular aftermarket sight option are Tech-Sights. You'll want about four standard capacity (10 round) magazines as well. Beyond that, a shooting mat or other portable padded surface, elbow and knee pads, ammo, a hat, safety glasses, ear protection, weather appropriate clothing, hydration, nutrition and an attitude for learning are your principle needs.
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Re: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges

Postby bblhd672 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:52 pm

Middle Age Russ wrote:
I've considered Is a Ruger 10/22 Takedown - is this a good quality .22 rifle if I wanted to do Appleseed?


For Appleseed, you'll want to outfit any gun with a simple military web sling and adjustable (preferably aperture) sights -- the latter if you want to shoot without optics. The 10/22 Takedown typically isn't set up with sling swivel studs, and the factory sights are not really what you want. I installed sling swivel studs on my wife's 10/22 Takedown, and also Nodak Spud sights since they include a section of picatinny rail for mounting an optic as well if you want. The other popular aftermarket sight option are Tech-Sights. You'll want about four standard capacity (10 round) magazines as well. Beyond that, a shooting mat or other portable padded surface, elbow and knee pads, ammo, a hat, safety glasses, ear protection, weather appropriate clothing, hydration, nutrition and an attitude for learning are your principle needs.


So is there a better "stock" rifle to choose than a Ruger 10/22 Takedown?
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