So it begins.

"A pistol is what you use to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have left behind!" Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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TreyHouston
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Re: So it begins.

Postby TreyHouston » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:22 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:So let me ask. They make a pistol brace that can be sholdered and ATF considers this a legal pistol. So, what the heck is a SBR now????? :confused5

https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/sob/

An SBR is a short barreled rifle, not a pistol. SBR is its legal classification. You can't legally shoulder an AR pistol, even if the brace looks shoulderable. ATF is very clear on that. The braces are legal for sale, and they are legal for use as a brace on a pistol, but it is illegal to use such a brace as a buttstock to shoulder the weapon. ATF has been very clear also, that if caught shouldering a pistol with a brace, the pistol instantly becomes an unregistered SBR, and you do NOT want to be in possession of such a thing without the stamp for it. An ATF registered SBR is perfectly legal to shoulder, because it is legally a rifle....just one with a short barrel.

Totally arbitrary nonsense? Yes. But it is the law nonetheless.



https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017042 ... ing-braces

The new letter maintains the position that “the use of stabilizing braces, as designed, would not create a short-barreled rifle when attached to a firearm.”

But it then goes on to clarify that “an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made … even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder.”
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:


strogg
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Re: So it begins.

Postby strogg » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:55 am

TreyHouston wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:So let me ask. They make a pistol brace that can be sholdered and ATF considers this a legal pistol. So, what the heck is a SBR now????? :confused5

https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/sob/

An SBR is a short barreled rifle, not a pistol. SBR is its legal classification. You can't legally shoulder an AR pistol, even if the brace looks shoulderable. ATF is very clear on that. The braces are legal for sale, and they are legal for use as a brace on a pistol, but it is illegal to use such a brace as a buttstock to shoulder the weapon. ATF has been very clear also, that if caught shouldering a pistol with a brace, the pistol instantly becomes an unregistered SBR, and you do NOT want to be in possession of such a thing without the stamp for it. An ATF registered SBR is perfectly legal to shoulder, because it is legally a rifle....just one with a short barrel.

Totally arbitrary nonsense? Yes. But it is the law nonetheless.



https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017042 ... ing-braces

The new letter maintains the position that “the use of stabilizing braces, as designed, would not create a short-barreled rifle when attached to a firearm.”

But it then goes on to clarify that “an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made … even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder.”


The way I interpret the latest letter is, "Whatever... we got bigger things to deal with than to argue over semantics with honest, law abiding citizens. But we don't want to pin ourselves in a corner in case bad guys take advantage of this fuzziness."

Regardless, it's still a good idea to register an SBR-esque pistol as an SBR because A: after it's registered, the laws become less fuzzy, B: you can use a collapsible stock instead of the brace nonsense, and C: you can accessorize all you want, including forward pistol grip. For only $200, I think it's worth it, considering the initial cost of the pistol.

I have two AR pistols in my collection, a 10.5" 300 blk and a 10.5" 22LR. I plan on SBRing those too, but I barely use them as it is, so I feel less inspired to SBR those as I do the PS90, which makes a range appearance over 50% of the time.

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: So it begins.

Postby The Annoyed Man » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:20 pm

TreyHouston wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:So let me ask. They make a pistol brace that can be sholdered and ATF considers this a legal pistol. So, what the heck is a SBR now????? :confused5

https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/sob/

An SBR is a short barreled rifle, not a pistol. SBR is its legal classification. You can't legally shoulder an AR pistol, even if the brace looks shoulderable. ATF is very clear on that. The braces are legal for sale, and they are legal for use as a brace on a pistol, but it is illegal to use such a brace as a buttstock to shoulder the weapon. ATF has been very clear also, that if caught shouldering a pistol with a brace, the pistol instantly becomes an unregistered SBR, and you do NOT want to be in possession of such a thing without the stamp for it. An ATF registered SBR is perfectly legal to shoulder, because it is legally a rifle....just one with a short barrel.

Totally arbitrary nonsense? Yes. But it is the law nonetheless.



https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017042 ... ing-braces

The new letter maintains the position that “the use of stabilizing braces, as designed, would not create a short-barreled rifle when attached to a firearm.”

But it then goes on to clarify that “an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made … even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder.”

Well then, that's a recent change. Even so, if I'm going to be firing from the shoulder most of the time, I'd rather have a purpose designed buttstock. And on further reflection, it would appear that the change in definition is merely a matter of who is president at the time. If a democrat is elected in 2020, you safety bet that ATF will rescind that letter, and issue a new one restablishing the rules under Obama. It's a fickle definition. Until the NFA is struck down, at least an SBR's definition won't change. Yeah, it's a $200 stamp, and a wait for permission; but once it's done, it's done.
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."—Hookalakah Meshobbab
"I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes."—The Annoyed Boy
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TreyHouston
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Re: So it begins.

Postby TreyHouston » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:36 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:So let me ask. They make a pistol brace that can be sholdered and ATF considers this a legal pistol. So, what the heck is a SBR now????? :confused5

https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/sob/

An SBR is a short barreled rifle, not a pistol. SBR is its legal classification. You can't legally shoulder an AR pistol, even if the brace looks shoulderable. ATF is very clear on that. The braces are legal for sale, and they are legal for use as a brace on a pistol, but it is illegal to use such a brace as a buttstock to shoulder the weapon. ATF has been very clear also, that if caught shouldering a pistol with a brace, the pistol instantly becomes an unregistered SBR, and you do NOT want to be in possession of such a thing without the stamp for it. An ATF registered SBR is perfectly legal to shoulder, because it is legally a rifle....just one with a short barrel.

Totally arbitrary nonsense? Yes. But it is the law nonetheless.



https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017042 ... ing-braces

The new letter maintains the position that “the use of stabilizing braces, as designed, would not create a short-barreled rifle when attached to a firearm.”

But it then goes on to clarify that “an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made … even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder.”

Well then, that's a recent change. Even so, if I'm going to be firing from the shoulder most of the time, I'd rather have a purpose designed buttstock. And on further reflection, it would appear that the change in definition is merely a matter of who is president at the time. If a democrat is elected in 2020, you safety bet that ATF will rescind that letter, and issue a new one restablishing the rules under Obama. It's a fickle definition. Until the NFA is struck down, at least an SBR's definition won't change. Yeah, it's a $200 stamp, and a wait for permission; but once it's done, it's done.



:iagree: thank you

And sorry about hijacking the thread!
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:

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Jago668
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Re: So it begins.

Postby Jago668 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:13 pm

TreyHouston wrote:So let me ask. They make a pistol brace that can be sholdered and ATF considers this a legal pistol. So, what the heck is a SBR now????? :confused5

https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/sob/


For me, it is when we get a different president and the ATF decides that shouldering a pistol brace is now a bad thing again.
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TreyHouston
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Re: So it begins.

Postby TreyHouston » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:20 pm

Just read current form 1 takes 350+ days for approval.... WOW!!! :shock:
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:

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TexasJohnBoy
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Re: So it begins.

Postby TexasJohnBoy » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:03 pm

TreyHouston wrote:Just read current form 1 takes 350+ days for approval.... WOW!!! :shock:

You know, those background checks and double secret forms to make sure to really aren't a bad guy. They take a lot of time...


Because that stops the bad guys from having an SBR.
TSRA Member since 5/30/15; NRA Member since 10/31/14

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Jago668
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Re: So it begins.

Postby Jago668 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:26 pm

TreyHouston wrote:Just read current form 1 takes 350+ days for approval.... WOW!!! :shock:


So you're saying I got plenty of time to save up for my silencer?
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TreyHouston
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Re: So it begins.

Postby TreyHouston » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:51 pm

Jago668 wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:Just read current form 1 takes 350+ days for approval.... WOW!!! :shock:


So you're saying I got plenty of time to save up for my silencer?


HA! I believe that you have to send the SN and maker information so, no. You have to pony up the money then wait a year to open your present!
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:

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SQLGeek
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Re: So it begins.

Postby SQLGeek » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:32 pm

I'm waffling myself between just getting the Ruger AR-556 MPR, putting some BUIS on and being done with it for a spell or getting this from Aero and starting the build process.

https://aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-recei ... gsten.html

If I build a rifle, it will probably end up looking a bit like the MPR though with the parts I pick out.

At any rate, I can't make up my mind and I have been peppering poor TAM with tons of questions. My eventual goal will be to also get a can from someone like Silencer Co. Money grows on trees, right? :mrgreen:

What kind of silencer are you looking at getting?
Psalm 91:2

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Jago668
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Re: So it begins.

Postby Jago668 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:56 pm

SQLGeek wrote:What kind of silencer are you looking at getting?


This is the one I've had my eye on.

https://www.silencershop.com/silencers/ ... 00-tm.html?
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