Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby The Annoyed Man » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:25 pm

Scott B. wrote:
SQLGeek wrote:
Scott B. wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:Ruger Gunsite Scout (technically, dark gray, but it IS a wooden stock):


I like it!


It is a nice rifle even if it is wrong handed. :lol:


And it' s not really set up scout style, but then again that's exactly how I'd set up one too.

I 've made a serious tactical error, this thread might cost me some serious $$. :evil2:

You’re welcome. :evil2: :lol:

I originally had it set up scout style with a forward mounted Leupold 1.5-5x33 Scout Scope, but my eyesight has really gone downhill over the last couple of years, so almost a year ago, I got rid of the OEM rail and rear sight, substituted the XS Sight Systems rail with integral ghost ring sight, and mounted a 2-10x32 Vortex Viper PST FFP MRAD scope instead. The Leupold is a nice scope with good glass, but I prefer having a reticle with either MOA or MRAD subtendsions that match the type of adjustments on the turrets. The Vortex has a nice illuminated MRAD reticle with more elevation adjustment range built into it than the rifle can take full advantage of. The Leupold just has a plain duplex reticle with their “Firedot” in the center of the crosshairs. The 2x at the low end of the Vortex wasn’t all that much more magnification than the 1.5x at the low end of the Leupold, but the Vortex gives me twice as much magnification at the high end without getting ridiculously too big for the rifle. Since I have no plans to use this rifle in CQB, I’m not worried about low end magnification much.

So, between the replacement rail and the scope and rings, I actually have a chunk more money in optics than I have in the rifle. But it’s a great scope and I like it on that rifle. In fact, I kept that scout scope, and when I bought my Marlin - pictured above - I added an XS Sight Systems rail and ghost ring sight to it too (and the matching front sight blade), and mounted that scout scope on it....where it is perfect for that rifle.
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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby The Annoyed Man » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:27 pm

Vol Texan wrote:Among other things, I picked these eight ladies up after Harvey hit here in Houston. A neighbor asked me if I'd help her sell her husband's guns - he'd passed away just a month before the hurricane hit, she wanted nothing to do with these after he was gone.

She offered to let me keep one of these M1 Carbines as a commission for helping out - and I chose the Standard Products as my own. I sold the Winchester, the RockOla, the National Postal Meter, and the IBM within the first month, and the Quality Hardware went this week. Only two more remain - an Underwood and a Saginal S'G'. Hopefully these will find a forever home soon enough.

Image

How much are you asking for those M1s? I wouldn’t mind ownin a second one.
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."—Hookalakah Meshobbab
"I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes."—The Annoyed Boy
"Id aegre et in omnibus semper."—Quod Homo Aegre

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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby SQLGeek » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:47 pm

I expect Vol Texan has a few PMs waiting in his inbox right now, one of them mine. :D
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Scott B.
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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby Scott B. » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:45 pm

You would be correct! Me too.
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby The Annoyed Man » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:46 pm

Scott B. wrote:You would be correct! Me too.

Me three. :bigear:

Now, I’ve already got a beautiful M1 carbine, so if these are both taken or more than I can afford, I’m OK. But I’d sure like to have a second one that’s dinged up enough already to serve as a truck gun.
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."—Hookalakah Meshobbab
"I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes."—The Annoyed Boy
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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby SQLGeek » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:53 pm

I've yet to acquire one although I really have wanted one with flip sights and no bayonet lug, I've resigned myself to the fact that getting one would be more than I care to spend.
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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby G26ster » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:26 pm

Just put my last M1 Carbine on consignment at my lgs here in Hurst. Quality Hardware was received from the CMP as a barreled receiver that I built up with all Quality Hardware parts (except type II barrel band). Will go on GB if not sold in a few days. Asking $995 firm. Call Mike at Oakwood Arms 817-510-6464 if interested. Here's the parts list:

Stock – Q-RMC Type II – marked Q-RMC in sling well – QHMC cartouche (cut down to low wood)
Buttplate – QHMC
Recoil Plate – Type III QHMC – marked RO-Q
Barrel – Underwood – marked Underwood 12-43 (Quality did not make barrels and used mainly Underwood barrels)
Barrel Band – Type II (cut down Type III) marked A in circle – (should be unmarked)
Front Sight – Type II marked PO-Q)
Rear Sight – Type III marked IRCO
Trigger Housing – Type III marked NL-Q (Type III & IV in mixed use at this time)
Trigger – Type II marked LT-Q
Sear – Type II marked GE-Q
Hammer – Type III marked LT-Q
Slide – Type III marked UN-Q
Bolt – Type III marked EMQ
Extractor – Marked ST-Q
Safety – Type III unmarked (unmarked is correct)
Mag Catch – Type IIA marked EP-Q

I used Craig Riesch's "U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production" and "War Baby" by Larry L. Ruth as my guides to correct parts. These are the definitive guides for M1 Carbine collectors.

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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby Liberty » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:31 pm

Liberty wrote:What is that sling you have on that GSR?

The Annoyed Man wrote:It’s a Galco Safari “Ching Sling” - the type of sling recommended by Col Cooper himself for scout type rifles: https://www.galcogunleather.com/safari-ching-sling_8_361_1257.html


I love mine. The leather is still a little bit stiff because I haven’t actually used the sling very much in the field to carry and deploy the rifle, so it’s not fully broken in yet, but like most Galco products, it is exceptionally well made, and in my opinion, certainly worth the $80 they charge for it. I expect it to last as long as the rifle does. I have several other slings, mostly VTAC slings for my ARs, but this leather Ching sling is by far the nicest sling I have. If Ling New at Gunsite Academy says it works, then it works. I will tell you that you’ll spend a little time figuring out what adjustment settings work for you at your individual size. And because the brass studs and corresponding holes in the leather are meant to be left alone once your fit has been figured out, it’s a little bit of work to make those adjustments. But it does work exactly as advertised, and it makes for very stable shooting when away from the bench.

Thanks, I've been wondering about a 2 point Ching Sling, and if it was much of a compromise from the 3 point sling. It looks like the two point that you are using will work well for me.

I have the 18" Stainless GSR, with a x 2.5 Leopold that is forward mounted on see-thru mounts. I had to add a cheekpad to allow a good cheekweld while using the scope. I also replaced the flash hider with the thread protector.
Image
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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby The Annoyed Man » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:19 pm

Liberty wrote:I have the 18" Stainless GSR, with a x 2.5 Leopold that is forward mounted on see-thru mounts. I had to add a cheekpad to allow a good cheekweld while using the scope. I also replaced the flash hider with the thread protector.
Image

The stainless 18” version wasn’t available when I bought mine, or I might well have bought that instead. I don’t feel like an extra 2” of barrel would be that much more noticeably cumbersome. One note..... I found out the hard way that there is truth to a certain rumor I had heard about the barrel threading on the Gunsite Scouts not being concentric to the bore. It’s not far off enough to make a difference if your muzzle device is something short like a flash hider or muzzle brake, but with a suppressor, it’s a real problem. The one in the picture is an AAC 762-SDN-6 mounted on a 3-prong AAC flashhider. It was a tiny bit off center at the can’s exit, but not enough to cause contact with the bullet. However, it caused the gun to become wildly inaccurate. So then I switched over to a Griffin Armaments short 2 chamber muzzle brake with a taper mount, and tried using my Form 1 can. It looked more centered than the other can when I stuck a bore guide in it, although it was still not perfectly concentric. However, I couldn’t even get the bullets on paper at 50 yards. So I gave up and took the can off, and bingo......multiple baffle strikes, and strikes on the inside of the endcap. I am darn lucky I didn’t blow the can up!

I just said to heck with it, and I’m not going to use a can on it any longer. But I am going to leave that Griffin muzzle brake on it. It mitigated the recoil quite nicely, and didn’t seem to add to the volume of the muzzle blast any. But i am done with trying to mount a can on the thing. I thought (briefly) about rebarreling it with a higher quality 18” threaded barrel like a Kreiger or something, cerakoting it, and trying again; but that would be an expensive proposition, which I am not convinced is worth doing.

So I’m just going to enjoy the rifle for what it is until then and not try to trick it out any more.....although I might have my son do a trigger job on it. I have two other .308s, and one of them (SCAR 17S) suppresses quite nicely with my Form 1 can, and I can have the barrel threaded on my Remington 700 by a competent gunsmith for a lot less money than it would cost to tart up the RGS to accept a can.

My scope is lower to the barrel than yours, so an elevated cheek rest isn’t necessary. It looks like you’re using “look through” rings? I solved it by using quick-release Burris XTR tactical rings. The scope sits lower to the bore, and if it needs to be removed for any reason, popping two levers open gets it off the rail quickly, and bingo - iron sights. If remounted, it’s not going to return to perfect zero, but it will be close enough for quick and dirty, and can be adjusted on the fly fairly quickly with that milling reticle and matching .1 mil clicks on the turrets.

I like my scopes nice and low. Here’s the driver’s seat view on the Marlin:

Image

And here’s what it looks like from behind on the Ruger:

Image

I am a fan of these rifles, and the scout concept, despite the ridicule some people heap on them. Like a good lever action, they make a good truck gun, and they’re just a good general purpose bolt gun.
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."—Hookalakah Meshobbab
"I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes."—The Annoyed Boy
"Id aegre et in omnibus semper."—Quod Homo Aegre


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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby equin » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:14 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Liberty wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:Ruger Gunsite Scout (technically, dark gray, but it IS a wooden stock):
Image


What is that sling you have on that GSR?

It’s a Galco Safari “Ching Sling” - the type of sling recommended by Col Cooper himself for scout type rifles: https://www.galcogunleather.com/safari-ching-sling_8_361_1257.html



I love mine. The leather is still a little bit stiff because I haven’t actually used the sling very much in the field to carry and deploy the rifle, so it’s not fully broken in yet, but like most Galco products, it is exceptionally well made, and in my opinion, certainly worth the $80 they charge for it. I expect it to last as long as the rifle does. I have several other slings, mostly VTAC slings for my ARs, but this leather Ching sling is by far the nicest sling I have. If Ling New at Gunsite Academy says it works, then it works. I will tell you that you’ll spend a little time figuring out what adjustment settings work for you at your individual size. And because the brass studs and corresponding holes in the leather are meant to be left alone once your fit has been figured out, it’s a little bit of work to make those adjustments. But it does work exactly as advertised, and it makes for very stable shooting when away from the bench.


I agree. Nice sling! I got a cheaper nylon one called a “Rhodesian” sling based off a 2-point Ching sling. Yours makes me wish I would’ve paid extra for the leather one.
Ed

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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby Beiruty » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:35 am

My Yugo M59 SKS. Lovely rifle.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yneX4wjVPUlnjWES2
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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby Vol Texan » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:48 am

G26ster wrote:Just put my last M1 Carbine on consignment at my lgs here in Hurst. Quality Hardware was received from the CMP as a barreled receiver that I built up with all Quality Hardware parts (except type II barrel band). Will go on GB if not sold in a few days. Asking $995 firm. Call Mike at Oakwood Arms 817-510-6464 if interested. Here's the parts list:

Stock – Q-RMC Type II – marked Q-RMC in sling well – QHMC cartouche (cut down to low wood)
Buttplate – QHMC
Recoil Plate – Type III QHMC – marked RO-Q
Barrel – Underwood – marked Underwood 12-43 (Quality did not make barrels and used mainly Underwood barrels)
Barrel Band – Type II (cut down Type III) marked A in circle – (should be unmarked)
Front Sight – Type II marked PO-Q)
Rear Sight – Type III marked IRCO
Trigger Housing – Type III marked NL-Q (Type III & IV in mixed use at this time)
Trigger – Type II marked LT-Q
Sear – Type II marked GE-Q
Hammer – Type III marked LT-Q
Slide – Type III marked UN-Q
Bolt – Type III marked EMQ
Extractor – Marked ST-Q
Safety – Type III unmarked (unmarked is correct)
Mag Catch – Type IIA marked EP-Q

I used Craig Riesch's "U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production" and "War Baby" by Larry L. Ruth as my guides to correct parts. These are the definitive guides for M1 Carbine collectors.


I have not catalogued the parts for all 8 of 'mine', but I will for the one that I'm keeping for myself. Yes, I know I SHOULD have gone through all of them to see if I could cross-level the parts to get one as fully homogeneous as possible, but to be honest, I felt responsible to keep them exactly as they came from CMP - mixmatched and all.

I have the same book from Riesch. It is a fantastic read for anyone who wants to learn about the M1 Carbine. Another interesting tidbit is found on this page (http://fulton-armory.com/faqs/M1C-FAQs/M1Carbine.htm):


Inland Manufacturing Division, G.M.C. 2,632,097 43.0%
Winchester Repeating Arms Co. 828,059 13.5%
Underwood-Elliot-Fisher Co. 545,616 8.9%
*Saginaw Steering Gear Div., G.M.C. 517,212 8.5%
**National Postal Meter Co. 413,017 6.8%
***Quality Hardware & Machine Co. 359,666 5.9%
International Business Machines Corp (IBM) 346,500 5.7%
Standard Products Co. 247,160 4.0%
Rock-Ola Co. 228,500 3.7%

Total: 6,221,220

* Note that Saginaw had two plants in operation, one in Saginaw, MI and one in Grand Rapids, MI. The Grand Rapids facility assumed a contract that had been originally awarded to Irwin-Pedersen Arms Co....I-P had assembled only 3,542 guns at the time, none of which were accepted by the government.

**Note that a few early NPM receivers are marked "Rochester", for the Rochester Defence Corp. A very few late receivers are marked "CCC", for Commecial Controls Corp.

***Note that some Quality Hardware carbines were assembled using receivers made by Union Switch & Signal Co, hence the "UN-QUALITY" marked carbines. These are highly prized by some carbine aficionados.


I wanted to keep the Rock-Ola, because it is the rarest of the carbines, but I let my brother buy it instead. He's a professional musician, and having one made by the jukebox company meant a lot more to him than it did to me. I opted for the Standard Products (next rarest on the list)
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When those fail, aim for center mass.

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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby Vol Texan » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:50 am

SQLGeek wrote:I expect Vol Texan has a few PMs waiting in his inbox right now, one of them mine. :D


Indeed I do - four in total. I promise to send all individual responses, letting you know where you are on the queue.
Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
When those fail, aim for center mass.

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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby Liberty » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:03 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Liberty wrote:I have the 18" Stainless GSR, with a x 2.5 Leopold that is forward mounted on see-thru mounts. I had to add a cheekpad to allow a good cheekweld while using the scope. I also replaced the flash hider with the thread protector.


The stainless 18” version wasn’t available when I bought mine, or I might well have bought that instead. I don’t feel like an extra 2” of barrel would be that much more noticeably cumbersome. One note..... I found out the hard way that there is truth to a certain rumor I had heard about the barrel threading on the Gunsite Scouts not being concentric to the bore.


I like Ruger stainless, I probably would have got it in 16" if it was available at the time. Taking off the hider was my way of compensating for the extra 2 inches. I think it looks better and is just less likely to catch on stuff. Jeff Cooper's concept of a scout was someone on foot or horseback. My 21st century concept is being on foot or inside my Honda where every inch counts for maneuvering.

Someday if the government decides that our hearing is worth saving I would love to have a suppressed gun. I wouldn't suppress the GSR though. I would want a 300 BO AR style or a 22lR bolt or lever suppressed. I value the GSR compactness and power of the .308 more than my hearing.


The Annoyed Man wrote:
My scope is lower to the barrel than yours, so an elevated cheek rest isn’t necessary. It looks like you’re using “look through” rings? I solved it by using quick-release Burris XTR tactical rings. The scope sits lower to the bore, and if it needs to be removed for any reason, popping two levers open gets it off the rail quickly, and bingo - iron sights. If remounted, it’s not going to return to perfect zero, but it will be close enough for quick and dirty, and can be adjusted on the fly fairly quickly with that milling reticle and matching .1 mil clicks on the turrets.

In Hindsight I should have used a good set of quick releases. One thing I have learned is if you sight it in at 25 Yards you're pretty much good to go out to 300 yards. Sighting / resighting in a .308 is pretty easy and can be done with a half box of ammo. The thing is, I only have access to a 100 yard range so I don't have a lot of motivation to lower the scope at this time but it is something I probably will change sooner or later. I do think that sling might be a better investment to my shooting skills though.
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Re: Pictures of your "Brown Guns"

Postby G26ster » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:35 am

Vol Texan wrote:
I have not catalogued the parts for all 8 of 'mine', but I will for the one that I'm keeping for myself. Yes, I know I SHOULD have gone through all of them to see if I could cross-level the parts to get one as fully homogeneous as possible, but to be honest, I felt responsible to keep them exactly as they came from CMP - mixmatched and all.


Yes most of the Carbines from CMP were arsenal rebuilt "mixmasters" so keeping them that way is the general rule. Mine came at the very end of CMP sales when they were down to barreled receivers only, so my choices were to build it up as a mixmaster, or as close to original as possible. I chose the later. But I agree that keeping it as it came from the CMP is probably the best course for any collector.


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