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Re: IN: Police May Not Detain Armed Hoosiers to Check for Handgun License
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:50 pm
by Flightmare
parabelum wrote:
with TAM. Well said.
And those who are quick to condemn anyone with a felony conviction, more specifically one where violence was not a factor, just remember that local/State/Federal etc. judiciary can just as easily go after you one sunny day. You'd be surprised perhaps, maybe not, at "crimes" which carry a felony conviction.
Indeed. A buddy of mine has a state jail felony conviction on his record because he poured sugar free syrup into a guy's gas tank.
Re: IN: Police May Not Detain Armed Hoosiers to Check for Handgun License
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 4:55 pm
by The Annoyed Man
rotor wrote:The Annoyed Man wrote:This case is purely the result of a criminal "justice" landscape in which a person convicted of a felony never truly finishes serving his sentence until the day he dies - regardless of the nature of his crime.
I think it is time to take a good hard look at what happens to felons after they've done their time. If Obama can give felons the vote while they are still in prison (arguably much more dangerous than a gun), then what is the problem with gun rights for felons........particularly if their convictions were not for violent crimes? And if the consensus is that a felon should never have their gun rights back, then what we're saying is that their debt to society can never be repaid. If someone's "debt to society" can never truly be paid off, then can we ever realistically expect released felons who have served their sentences to become stakeholders in the society?
I don't know what the answers should be, but I do know that society's refusal to consider what are the REAL meanings of liberty and human rights has resulted in the deep state we "enjoy" today. Maybe it is time to start putting our money where our mouths are when it comes to the liberty of the individual.
I guess it is possible for some to turn their lives around and have their rights restored but we also need to look at the numbers that are arrested again and we all wonder why such and such was out and able to kill someone. Sex offenders needing to register, etc. I don't know the answer but obviously our present gun laws do NOT prevent felons from acquiring guns and our justice system is not really a reflection of justice. What the system needs is a King Solomon to make these decisions but we don't have one. I noted in my local paper that the J.P.'s were complaining that their "incomes" were going down because the DA was dropping misdemeanor cases. It's not about "Justice" only money. And traffic tickets are only for "safety" and not money. Sure!
Rotor, you might enjoy the book I reviewed here:
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=88942
Re: IN: Police May Not Detain Armed Hoosiers to Check for Handgun License
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:11 pm
by WTR
Flightmare wrote:parabelum wrote: with TAM. Well said.
And those who are quick to condemn anyone with a felony conviction, more specifically one where violence was not a factor, just remember that local/State/Federal etc. judiciary can just as easily go after you one sunny day. You'd be surprised perhaps, maybe not, at "crimes" which carry a felony conviction.
Indeed. A buddy of mine has a state jail felony conviction on his record because he poured sugar free syrup into a guy's gas tank.
Anyone who's judgement is so poor to have preformed such a destructive and juvenile action, should not be allowed to process a firearm.
Re: IN: Police May Not Detain Armed Hoosiers to Check for Handgun License
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 6:54 pm
by tbrown
KLB wrote:rotor wrote:In the reported case I am ambivalent about the result because we ended up with a felon with a gun getting a free pass.
The reality is that the limits of our freedoms are determined by circumstances in which criminals get off. Had the gun carrier not been a felon, the matter never would have gone to court.
The landmark case Miranda v. Arizona is a great example. We all know his conviction for kidnapping and rape, based on his signed confession, was thrown out by the US Supreme Court. What some people forget is Ernesto Miranda was retried without his confession in evidence, and was convicted and sent back to prison, based on other evidence including witness testimony.
Ironically, he was stabbed to death in a bar fight after he got out of prison, and his accused killer heeded the Miranda warning and was not convicted.
Re: IN: Police May Not Detain Armed Hoosiers to Check for Handgun License
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 8:39 pm
by rotor
I ordered it. Haven't read it yet.
Re: IN: Police May Not Detain Armed Hoosiers to Check for Handgun License
Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:43 pm
by Soccerdad1995
WTR wrote:Flightmare wrote:parabelum wrote: with TAM. Well said.
And those who are quick to condemn anyone with a felony conviction, more specifically one where violence was not a factor, just remember that local/State/Federal etc. judiciary can just as easily go after you one sunny day. You'd be surprised perhaps, maybe not, at "crimes" which carry a felony conviction.
Indeed. A buddy of mine has a state jail felony conviction on his record because he poured sugar free syrup into a guy's gas tank.
Anyone who's judgement is so poor to have preformed such a destructive and juvenile action, should not be allowed to process a firearm.
But should they lose the right forever? What if their judgment improves with age (as happens for most people) and they are no longer likely to take such a juvenile action in the future?
Call me soft, but I think that felons should be able to regain their right to vote, and RKBA, after their full sentence period has run it's course, and after they have made full financial restitution to their victim(s). If we collectively believe that a crime should result in, say, 10 years of punishment, then give them the right to vote back after that full 10 year period (even though they are likely paroled earlier). And any related restrictions on firearm possession should be eliminated when they get the right to vote back. I believe we need a strong connection between those two rights.
Of course, there could be other unrelated reasons to restrict either right (mental illness, etc).
Re: IN: Police May Not Detain Armed Hoosiers to Check for Handgun License
Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:22 pm
by WTR
We already collectively believe they should loose the right to bear arms forever. Part of the punishment is loosing that right. With the amount of repeat offenders we have, I'm not willing to be " soft" and chance their judgement improves. Not with my loved ones.
Re: IN: Police May Not Detain Armed Hoosiers to Check for Handgun License
Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:32 pm
by Soccerdad1995
WTR wrote:We already collectively believe they should loose the right to bear arms forever. Part of the punishment is loosing that right. With the amount of repeat offenders we have, I'm not willing to be " soft" and chance their judgement improves. Not with my loved ones.
I can see your point. I'm just not a fan of a lifetime loss of civil rights for all felonies.
Your loved ones (and mine) are at risk regardless of whether these felons can legally own a gun, of course. If protection of our loved ones is the goal, then we would need lifetime imprisonment, without the possibility of parole, for all felony convictions.
Re: IN: Police May Not Detain Armed Hoosiers to Check for Handgun License
Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 4:53 pm
by OldCurlyWolf
Jusme wrote:rotor wrote:In the reported case I am ambivalent about the result because we ended up with a felon with a gun getting a free pass.
I am happy about the ruling, but I wish it had been someone who was legal to carry.
Re: IN: Police May Not Detain Armed Hoosiers to Check for Handgun License
Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:10 pm
by parabelum
WTR wrote:We already collectively believe they should loose the right to bear arms forever. Part of the punishment is loosing that right. With the amount of repeat offenders we have, I'm not willing to be " soft" and chance their judgement improves. Not with my loved ones.
I get your sentiment, albeit I bet it would certainly change if you were to be affected. All it takes is one slip up. Right lost forever? No chance for redemption? No forgiveness?
Ok. Well. Lord forbid it is you on the receiving end of judicial tyranny, your sentiment might change...