Transfers from California

Discussion of other state's CHL's & reciprocity

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Thofmann
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Transfers from California

Postby Thofmann » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:28 pm

My brother in law recently passed and lived in California. I'm trying to figure out how to get his guns back to Tx with me. I know in Cali all transisitons must go through a ffl but since here we don't have to register the firearms am I still required to ship to my ffl here or can I ship straight to me?

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parabelum
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Re: Transfers from California

Postby parabelum » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:45 pm

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but unless it's a black powder or antique, it needs to go through ffl.
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Weg
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Re: Transfers from California

Postby Weg » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:05 pm

Sorry to hear of your Brother in Laws passing, my regards. If my father passes before me, I will drive to California, load up all his guns, and drive back to Texas with them. Not legal advice i'm sure, but that's how i'm going to do it. Parabelum is correct though, pretty sure the law says they go through an FFL since you are a Texas resident.

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CleverNickname
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Re: Transfers from California

Postby CleverNickname » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:12 pm

If you're visiting California and are taking possession of the guns in person, then 18 USC 922(a)(3)(A) says you don't have to use an FFL in this instance.

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State


Now, the problem is getting the guns to Texas. If you drove there, just drive home with them. If you flew and there's too many to put in your baggage when you return, then you'll have to ship them. If you ship, then you have to abide by the shipper's rules, which probably includes that they only ship to an FFL.

If you're not going to California and just want the executor of the estate to ship the guns to you, then I don't think 18 USC 922(a)(3)(A) applies, since you're not acquiring the firearms in a state other than your state of residence. Have the executor of the estate ship the guns to a local FFL. Unless something changed recently, there is no requirement that guns being shipped from California be shipped by an FFL.
Last edited by CleverNickname on Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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denwego
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Re: Transfers from California

Postby denwego » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:13 pm

In terms of Texas and federal law, you'd be good to just go get them. One of the exemptions from needing a FFL for interstate transfers is inheritance:

USC 18.992.a(5)

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

California might well have some weird requirements for inheriting guns, but I don't really know where to begin with that cluster.

EDIT - CleverNickname beat me by moments!

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G.A. Heath
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Re: Transfers from California

Postby G.A. Heath » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:13 pm

Possibly not. When you inherit a firearm it can legally be transferred across state lines w/o an FFL in MOST cases. Two important factors that could complicate things are that the state of California is involved and that the Brother In Law is the deceased not a direct family member (Although I do not think this is actually an issue). Regarding the California issue I would suggest contacting Cal-Guns and seeking their advice, preferably for a firearms knowledgeable attorney to contact. As for the brother-in-law issue an attorney familiar with firearms inheritance issues (Preferably one recommended by Cal-Guns as they will know of California wrinkles in this aspect). It may also be better for the estate if the firearms are transferred using an FFL as California's registration records could come back to haunt the estate.
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Transfers from California

Postby The Annoyed Man » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:05 pm

As a former Californian myself, I'm not going to advise you what to do, but having just left California after a 2-week vacation there, I can tell you what would happen if you just drove out there and got the guns and left.......exactly nothing.

So long as the guns are transported according to California law - that is to say, unloaded and locked in a gun case - nobody is going to bother you about them. And once you cross the Colorado River into Arizona, nobody gives a darn who owned them before you came into possession - so long as there are no state or federal reasons for why you can't have a gun. There are no manned border crossings going out of California, and those going the other way into the state are manned by either the Border Patrol, or CA Dept of Agriculture personnel. And for good measure, you can always choose to drive in such a way as to not draw the attention of California LEOs.
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C-dub
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Re: Transfers from California

Postby C-dub » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:24 pm

Regarding the inheritance issue, unless the firearms were specifically left to you in his will, I'm not sure you could claim that exception because BIL was not a direct relative that an inheritance would typically be expected. If that is not the case, then can we assume that your sister is letting you have them after her husband has passed? If that is the case then I think it would be a transfer just like any other and an FFL would be required legally.

I'm sure TAM is correct about what would happen if you just left with them since CA would probably be more than happy to rid themselves of those evil things and not hassle anyone removing them from their delightful state. :biggrinjester: However, unless you are able to go the inheritance route, I think according to federal law an FFL must still be used to keep from going afoul of the feds should anything arise in the future.
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Oldgringo
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Re: Transfers from California

Postby Oldgringo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:28 pm

In the absence of someone contesting your right to them, do like TAM suggested. Just go get 'em. Why does nearly every question on this site require a SCOTUS decision?

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Jusme
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Re: Transfers from California

Postby Jusme » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:49 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:As a former Californian myself, I'm not going to advise you what to do, but having just left California after a 2-week vacation there, I can tell you what would happen if you just drove out there and got the guns and left.......exactly nothing.

So long as the guns are transported according to California law - that is to say, unloaded and locked in a gun case - nobody is going to bother you about them. And once you cross the Colorado River into Arizona, nobody gives a darn who owned them before you came into possession - so long as there are no state or federal reasons for why you can't have a gun. There are no manned border crossings going out of California, and those going the other way into the state are manned by either the Border Patrol, or CA Dept of Agriculture personnel. And for good measure, you can always choose to drive in such a way as to not draw the attention of California LEOs.





:iagree:

Once a person is deceased, they cannot be held liable for any firearms transfers. So unless there are guns that are reported stolen, no one here or in between here and California, will care how you got them or anything else. I can promise, you that California, authorities, don't have, a self alerting database, that will tell them that a gun owner has passed away. Any surviving relatives, are not responsible for their safe keeping, since they are not part of any registration. If anyone is asked about them, a shoulder shrug will suffice. And even if you are outed, there is no law that they can use to prosecute you in any way. JMHO
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Re: Transfers from California

Postby NNT » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:15 pm

Jusme wrote: I can promise, you that California, authorities, don't have, a self alerting database, that will tell them that a gun owner has passed away. Any surviving relatives, are not responsible for their safe keeping, since they are not part of any registration. ...


Now Buffalo tried something like that, not sure how it ended up. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/14/bu ... erals.html

As a former Californian, I would not put it past them to follow a similar line. It is already passed law and to take effect soon if it has not already, that you can't loan a gun in CA without and FFL involved (except for direct family I think)


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Thofmann
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Re: Transfers from California

Postby Thofmann » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:29 am

Thanks for all the responses. So after talking to my ffl here and one there, if I drive there and get them then all is good and done but if I ship they would have to go through my ffl due to the fact that they would have to cross a state line to be in my possession.

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Re: Transfers from California

Postby Lynyrd » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:13 am

Oldgringo wrote:In the absence of someone contesting your right to them, do like TAM suggested. Just go get 'em. Why does nearly every question on this site require a SCOTUS decision?
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