License carrying

[RolandB]

I would like to suggest that the Texas Department of Public Safety consider Driver's License/Identification Certificate license be consolidated with Concealed Handgun License!

When I compared my driver's license and my concealed handgun license they both contained:

• Photograph
  Full name
  full address
  signature
  DL number
  Eye color
  Heighth
  Weight
  Sex
  DOB
  Texas DPS Logo

They both contained expiration dates (in my case the were the same but I considered coincidental)
The DL had "Class" and "Restriction" entries.
The CHL contained a Category, hair color, and also its own license number!

First thing that could be done is to make renewal dates correspond. Next, make "CHL" a 'Security' designation. Then only issue one card!

What's important/reasoning to support this option? Cut card manufacturing volume. For the individuals, I don't want to carry but a minimum of cards. I really should be able to get by with carrying one DPS card and a credit/debit card and paper cash! With that little, a mans hip pocket load or a woman's purse would not be burdened.

I would love DPS administrators to consider this.

Thanks
RolandB

[LarryH]

This has been discussed before.

Do you really want every person that needs to see your driver's license (bank tellers at the drive-through, any store clerk where you pay with a check, etc) to know you have a CHL?

Major privacy issue.

[RolandB]

I don't think the DPS has to designate CHL by a graphic such as a handgun! What does the banker or grocery clerk think about my "REST: A" or my "CLASS: C". The CHL designation can be coded on the back in a "CATEGORY: SA" for instance. I've NEVER seen my banker, investment clerk, drug store, grocery, or matter of fact anyone look at the back of my license!

RolandB

[Charles L. Cotton]

Hi Roland, welcome to TexasCHLforum.

As Larry said, this issue comes up from time to time. There was some discussion in 1995 about making the CHL nothing more than a special code or endorsement on your Texas Drivers License like the motorcycle endorsement. At that time, the majority of sentiment expressed by the public and elected officials was to keep them separate for two reasons. First, for privacy reasons and secondly because the CHL processing was nothing like the process for a drivers license.

Another problem with combining them now is the different duration. The CHL is a five year license and the Texas Drivers License is six years. We can't extend the CHL to six years because we'd lose our NICS exemption.

Chas.

[aardwolf]

I would like to suggest that the Texas Department of Public Safety consider Driver's License/Identification Certificate license be consolidated with Concealed Handgun License!

A better solution is to run a background check on everyone before issuing identification. Texas could print a green border on someone's DL or ID card if they have a clean history. People with a criminal record get a red border on their DL or ID card. The inconvenience and cost to the law abiding would be minimal and the benefit to society would be greater than adding SA, NSA, LEO, etc. to the driver license. It would cover a much larger percentage of the population than the single digit percentage of Texans who can carry because of CHL, LEO, or other status.

[Douva]

I would like to suggest that the Texas Department of Public Safety consider Driver's License/Identification Certificate license be consolidated with Concealed Handgun License!

A better solution is to run a background check on everyone before issuing identification. Texas could print a green border on someone's DL or ID card if they have a clean history. People with a criminal record get a red border on their DL or ID card. The inconvenience and cost to the law abiding would be minimal and the benefit to society would be greater than adding SA, NSA, LEO, etc. to the driver license. It would cover a much larger percentage of the population than the single digit percentage of Texans who can carry because of CHL, LEO, or other status.

The problem is the obvious privacy issue. A 57-year-old businessman, father of four, and grandfather of six might not be okay with the fact that his driver's license has a red "criminal" border, simply because he and a friend boosted a car in 1969--when he was seventeen--took it for a joy ride, and wound up with a felony conviction.

However, I have been saying for a while that people should be allowed the OPTION of having an NICS check performed when they renew their drivers licenses and, if passed, so noted on their licenses. It would not only save time when making firearms purchases from licensed dealers; it would also provide sellers conducting person-to-person transactions with some way of checking a buyer's background without creating a paper trail. That should make both gun rights advocates and gun control advocates happy.

The fact that Texas driver's licenses are valid for six years but NICS checks are only valid for only five years could be rectified with a simple expiration date, similar to the "Under 21 until DD/MM/YYYY" stamps on the driver's licenses of minors. Drivers could have the option of updating their NICS status, for a fee, in the same way you can update the address or photo on your license.

[boomerang]

A better solution is to run a background check on everyone before issuing identification. Texas could print a green border on someone's DL or ID card if they have a clean history. People with a criminal record get a red border on their DL or ID card. The inconvenience and cost to the law abiding would be minimal and the benefit to society would be greater than adding SA, NSA, LEO, etc. to the driver license. It would cover a much larger percentage of the population than the single digit percentage of Texans who can carry because of CHL, LEO, or other status.

The problem is the obvious privacy issue.

If the conviction is public record, there's no privacy issue.

Printing my address or date of birth is a bigger privacy issue than a red flag on the ID of a convicted criminal.

[Douva]

A better solution is to run a background check on everyone before issuing identification. Texas could print a green border on someone's DL or ID card if they have a clean history. People with a criminal record get a red border on their DL or ID card. The inconvenience and cost to the law abiding would be minimal and the benefit to society would be greater than adding SA, NSA, LEO, etc. to the driver license. It would cover a much larger percentage of the population than the single digit percentage of Texans who can carry because of CHL, LEO, or other status.

The problem is the obvious privacy issue.

If the conviction is public record, there's no privacy issue.

Printing my address or date of birth is a bigger privacy issue than a red flag on the ID of a convicted criminal.

With all due respect, that's a gross oversimplification from someone who clearly doesn't have any blemishes on his record. We're not talking about individuals running for office who will certainly have others digging into their backgrounds; we're talking about "average Joes" who may have made some mistakes years or even ago. Your friends and coworkers probably aren't going to bother running a background check on you, but that doesn't mean they won't see your ID from time-to-time. This leaves someone with a criminal record in the embarrassing situation of either having to explain his or her "criminal" driver's license every time he or she is forced to take it out in public or having to endure quizzical glances, whispered questions, and rumors.

There isn't much that the Texas Legislature values more than personal privacy. They're about as likely to alter driver's licenses to indicate whether or not a person has a criminal record as to do away with driver's licenses altogether and require that all Texans be implanted with biochips.

[flb_78]

Keep em separate.

[boomerang]

Keep em separate.

I agree. Combining them into one piece of plastic would require changes to both the Texas driver license and identification cards. It could also cause difficulties for military personnel with a CHL who are out of state and get a local driver license. There are better ways to deal with the legitimate issues that RolandB raised.

First, don't require a licensee to show their license. Most people (except criminals) can legally carry a handgun in their car today. There's no longer any reason to require us to display a CHL. However, I have no objection to allowing people to show their CHL if they choose.

Second, don't require a licensee to even carry their license. Some people may raise all manner of specious objections, but Texas peace officers don't have to carry a TCLEOSE photo license card. (They can but aren't required to by law.) Similar processes and procedures could be extended to deal with someone who isn't carrying their CHL. It would probably be even easier than for peace officers because of the link between the CHL and driver license databases.

[anygunanywhere]

I would like to suggest that the Texas Department of Public Safety consider Driver's License/Identification Certificate license be consolidated with Concealed Handgun License!

When I compared my driver's license and my concealed handgun license they both contained:

• Photograph
  Full name
  full address
  signature
  DL number
  Eye color
  Heighth
  Weight
  Sex
  DOB
  Texas DPS Logo

They both contained expiration dates (in my case the were the same but I considered coincidental)
The DL had "Class" and "Restriction" entries.
The CHL contained a Category, hair color, and also its own license number!

First thing that could be done is to make renewal dates correspond. Next, make "CHL" a 'Security' designation. Then only issue one card!

What's important/reasoning to support this option? Cut card manufacturing volume. For the individuals, I don't want to carry but a minimum of cards. I really should be able to get by with carrying one DPS card and a credit/debit card and paper cash! With that little, a mans hip pocket load or a woman's purse would not be burdened.

I would love DPS administrators to consider this.

Thanks
RolandB

The best way is to eliminate the second amendment permission cards like Alaska and Vermont. We don't need no stinking permission.

Anygunanywhere

[Liberty]

I don't understand the objection to carrying a separate CHL it not all that heavy. nor that big. As long as we are required to get licensed I'd rather not have to advertise the fact that I have a CHL to everyone I must show ID too.

[Locksmith]

No longer valid

[RolandB]

After some thought, I suggest that our Driver's License should be the only card reflecting CHL. In today's life, I can envision the Texas Department of Public Safety keeping the record. If you have CHL or DID have CHL, I expect that CHL verification is required ONLINE for whatever the case may be! If you are stopped, the officer would defacto check the status! If you are using your CHL as a media for anything, it should be validated via online! As we all think about it, I don't care which card is in effect and/or in possession, it is only the beginning of a source for reference. Your cards, when used are used for the start of identification! Whoever looks at it is wanting what? Most often your name, picture, date of birth, home address and even sex are the major items. When stopped by law enforcement, it all begins with those and then if CHL (and that is provided at the first date) is to be checked. Most often, in our times of internet/telephone connection, they will check and if you are not being right, you deserve being punished for failure to communicate properly! I don't think CHL people are like 'periodic' users! It becomes a standard! Once you start, you will continue and only terminate probably when you can no longer drive either. The renewal of your CHL must be done by you on a timely basis. If you have one, it will still be checked even with the date current!

Bottom line, Texas DPS really needs ONE record about you and a separate license has little to no use! Your driver's license should reflect CHL even if CHL expires before the driver's license expires. The CHL date will be checked by law enforcement and woe to the CHL owner who fails to get it updated at the DPS records! If you decide you want to quit the CHL, then the DPS can (optionally) give you a document that you've quit and update your record when your driver's license gets renewed.

Last but not least, I have been mugged once in my life and wish to carry the fewest cards required. I have concluded that I need only some credit card and would like to have only a Driver's License/CHL combo card!

[ELB]

Keep'em separate. Different purposes, different cards. Mr. Cotton pretty well drove a stake through it when he pointed out the different durations and the NICS check. Also given the problems DPS his having keeping up with CHL intial/renewal applications, I sure don't want to hold me driver's license hostage to that, or be forced to choose between no driver's license or one without a CHL notation that I would have to come back in two months to exchange for one with CHL notation, and pay another fee in the process...

Sorry, but bad idea.

And worse is putting red and green borders around it. One more way for the state bureaucracy to raise a fee and make mistakes. Whole new criminal activitiy, providing "green-edges" to gangs, illegal aliens, etc through forgery/bribery. Bad guys gone good would be walking around with the big red flag, bad guys still going bad would be carrying forged/stolen green-edged cards, wouldn't take long before the "green edge" would be useless for any purpose...

Driver's license for driving. CHL license for CHL'ing. Until we progress to full 2A rights implementation.