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URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:38 am
by TacShot
The San Antonio Court of Appeals decision declaring an assisted-opening knife may meet the TPC definition of a switchblade knife could have a direct impact on many CHL holders who carry a folding knife as a backup means of defense. The decision ignored the classic federal and multi-state language test of the definition of a switchblade, i.e. the presence of an activating button on the handle, and chose to focus instead on centrifugal force as the determining criteria. The concern is that the opinion might be considered persuasive in knife cases across the state and not only target the assisted-opener but extend to virtually any one-handed opener such as the thumb studded or thumb hole opener being declared an illegal knife. This could result in FELONY charge against a CHL holder who left his pistol behind but carried a folding knife in his pocket while in any place a weapon is prohibited, (PC 46.03.).
There are two bills in the legislature to correct the problem. SB 2411, authored by Sen. Bob Deull, and HB 4456, authored by Rep. Joe Driver, both, "Relating to the definition of a switchblade knife for the purpose of the offense of prohibited weapons," should resolve the issue if allowed to pass.
Because of the possible impact on holders of a CHL, I urge members of this forum to indicate their support for these bills to their Senators and Representatives.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:54 am
by Charles L. Cotton
These bills are included in the Bill Status Report and they are very good bills.
Chas.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:28 pm
by The Annoyed Man
Charles L. Cotton wrote:These bills are included in the Bill Status Report and they are very good bills.
Chas.
Charles, I'm a little confused. . . . what
is the current state of the law at this point? I regularly carry a
Kershaw Tanto Blur. This knife has the Kershaw "Speedsafe" feature,
which they define thusly on their website:
What is SpeedSafe®?
SpeedSafe® is the patented, assisted-opening system built into many of Kershaw's best-selling Ken Onion knives. SpeedSafe® assists the user to smoothly open the knife with a manual push on the blade's thumb stud or Index-Open system. (Index-Open uses a protruding portion of the blade's finger guard to give the user an alternative to the thumb stud. The user manually pulls back on the protrusion with the index finger to open the blade.)
How does SpeedSafe® work?
The heart of the SpeedSafe® system is its torsion bar. Closed, the torsion bar helps keep the knife closed, preventing it from being opened by "gravity." In order to open the knife, the user must apply manual pressure to the thumb stud to overcome the resistance of the torsion bar. After the blade is out of the handle, the torsion bar moves along its half-moon track and takes over. The blade opens smoothly and locks into position, ready for use.
Is a SpeedSafe® knife a switchblade?
NO! There are many unique features of SpeedSafe knives that make them quite different than knives that are considered switchblades. Unlike a switchblade, SpeedSafe blades DO NOT deploy with the push of a button in the handle or by gravity alone. Instead, the user must manually overcome the torsion bar's resistance -- using the thumb stud or Index-Open protrusion on the blade itself -- in order to engage the SpeedSafe system. Because the user must manually overcome the torsion bar's resistance, SpeedSafe knives fall fully outside the Federal definition of a switchblade. However, due to the complexity and constantly changing nature of these laws and regulations, it is impossible for Kershaw Knives to be aware of every restriction in every location in which our knives are sold or carried. It is the responsibility of the buyer to investigate and comply with the laws and regulations that apply in his or her specific area. At Kershaw, we are proud to be able to offer this convenient, secure technology.
Who are our SpeedSafe® customers?
SpeedSafe® was specifically designed for sporting and work situations where one-handed opening is preferable and safer. Its safe, efficient opening has made it a popular choice for hunters, fishermen, and those who require the one-hand opening function on the job-site.
How Safe is SpeedSafe®?
Very. SpeedSafe® technology is designed to be safe and secure. The blade opens ONLY when the user manually deploys it using either the thumb stud or Index-Open protrusion. Once deployed, a locking system secures the blade in position so that it cannot close accidentally. When releasing the lock, the blade does not snap shut due to
resistance provided by the torsion bar. This bar also provides a bias towards the closed position (which holds the blade securely closed). New SpeedSafe users can ensure safe use of the technology by practicing to proficiency.
This law is idiotic, if it is true.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:25 pm
by Charles L. Cotton
The Annoyed Man wrote:Charles L. Cotton wrote:These bills are included in the Bill Status Report and they are very good bills.
Chas.
Charles, I'm a little confused. . . . what
is the current state of the law at this point? I regularly carry a
Kershaw Tanto Blur. This knife has the Kershaw "Speedsafe" feature,
which they define thusly on their website:
What is SpeedSafe®?
SpeedSafe® is the patented, assisted-opening system built into many of Kershaw's best-selling Ken Onion knives. SpeedSafe® assists the user to smoothly open the knife with a manual push on the blade's thumb stud or Index-Open system. (Index-Open uses a protruding portion of the blade's finger guard to give the user an alternative to the thumb stud. The user manually pulls back on the protrusion with the index finger to open the blade.)
How does SpeedSafe® work?
The heart of the SpeedSafe® system is its torsion bar. Closed, the torsion bar helps keep the knife closed, preventing it from being opened by "gravity." In order to open the knife, the user must apply manual pressure to the thumb stud to overcome the resistance of the torsion bar. After the blade is out of the handle, the torsion bar moves along its half-moon track and takes over. The blade opens smoothly and locks into position, ready for use.
Is a SpeedSafe® knife a switchblade?
NO! There are many unique features of SpeedSafe knives that make them quite different than knives that are considered switchblades. Unlike a switchblade, SpeedSafe blades DO NOT deploy with the push of a button in the handle or by gravity alone. Instead, the user must manually overcome the torsion bar's resistance -- using the thumb stud or Index-Open protrusion on the blade itself -- in order to engage the SpeedSafe system. Because the user must manually overcome the torsion bar's resistance, SpeedSafe knives fall fully outside the Federal definition of a switchblade. However, due to the complexity and constantly changing nature of these laws and regulations, it is impossible for Kershaw Knives to be aware of every restriction in every location in which our knives are sold or carried. It is the responsibility of the buyer to investigate and comply with the laws and regulations that apply in his or her specific area. At Kershaw, we are proud to be able to offer this convenient, secure technology.
Who are our SpeedSafe® customers?
SpeedSafe® was specifically designed for sporting and work situations where one-handed opening is preferable and safer. Its safe, efficient opening has made it a popular choice for hunters, fishermen, and those who require the one-hand opening function on the job-site.
How Safe is SpeedSafe®?
Very. SpeedSafe® technology is designed to be safe and secure. The blade opens ONLY when the user manually deploys it using either the thumb stud or Index-Open protrusion. Once deployed, a locking system secures the blade in position so that it cannot close accidentally. When releasing the lock, the blade does not snap shut due to
resistance provided by the torsion bar. This bar also provides a bias towards the closed position (which holds the blade securely closed). New SpeedSafe users can ensure safe use of the technology by practicing to proficiency.
This law is idiotic, if it is true.
I'm not familiar with that particular knife, but reading the description, it would be considered a switchblade knife, based upon the recent Texas case. I know my Kershaw Ken Onion would be a switchblade; at least it was mine until someone borrowed it on a lifetime basis.
I agree, the opinion is absurd! That's why these bills are necessary.
Chas.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:22 pm
by buck000
Pardon me, but I'm not the brightest bulb in the package with legalese.
I recently purchased a nice knife with an assisted-opening blade. I'm a bit worried that the
text in the bills still leaves room for interpretation of my knife as more of a switchblade than not. Its spring has an
outward/opening bias as opposed to the bill's text, which exempts
inward bias springs.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:00 am
by bubba1876
This is the knife I carry. Blade length is legal, but is this considered illegal? It opens easily with a flick of the index finger.
Just wondering.
http://www.knivesplus.com/SW-HRTMG.HTML" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:44 am
by surprise_i'm_armed
Here's a thought...
Since the definition of legal knives is subject to review, why not carry a BUG instead of
a knife? As a CHL holder, any handgun you carry will always be legal.
Our Texas CHL's allow us to carry as many guns as we can conceal, unlike a New Mexico
CHL, which limits the holder to ONE gun.
Body Piercing by Taurus.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:46 am
by ProudNativeTexican
I carry a knife to cut things. I really don't care a knife as a back-up.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:04 am
by Liberty
ProudNativeTexican wrote:I carry a knife to cut things. I really don't care a knife as a back-up.
As do I. That is the really irritating thing about these laws and rulings they are restricting tools, not even weapons,
while I might the criteria we may use in selecting a knife may include the suitability as use for weapon. Its primarry use is as a tool much like a screwdriver which may also be used as a deadly weapon.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:38 am
by kd5zex
Liberty wrote:ProudNativeTexican wrote:I carry a knife to cut things. I really don't care a knife as a back-up.
As do I. That is the really irritating thing about these laws and rulings they are restricting tools, not even weapons,
while I might the criteria we may use in selecting a knife may include the suitability as use for weapon. Its primarry use is as a tool much like a screwdriver which may also be used as a deadly weapon.
Don't rule out my BUF! (Back Up Fork)
Seriously, a pocket knife can be used as a weapon but should only be used as a
last resort. Knife fights are messy, close range and difficult. Most would be better served by using it as a striking apparatus rather than a cutting or stabbing device. I once read in edged weapon tactics paper that in a knife fight you
will be cut.
A pocket knife is an invaluable tool that I carry all the time, its uses run from the everyday box opening to emergency situations such as cutting seat belts, ropes etc.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:04 pm
by Reloader
san Antonio has had a law against laockblde knoves for years. It is only enforced agaimst the "gang" members. Even the city (silly) council stated they would not enforce it against a businessman in business attire (suit). Soon after they passed this, a gang person shot someone with a Colt Dragoon replica, which was legal to carry in SA because it was a black powder weapon...
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:34 am
by dontshakepandas
So it is illegal for me to carry my kershaw speedsafe knife now? That is one of the most reduculous things I've ever heard. Assisted openers do not help people with criminal intent since they can just open the knife before the attack. By making this illegal it is just hurting those of us who may need the knife quickly in a defense situation, or even more likely, to cut things with one hand. I love my speedsafe knife, and since I spend most of my time on a college campus it is usually my only line of defense. Yes, hopefully soon I will be able to carry to class, but I still can't cut things with a 9mm.
How likely is it that someone would be charged with this? Is it most likely going to be a tack on charge for people being charged with another crime? Could using my knife or even just having it clipped to my pants get me in trouble? Do these bills have a good chance of passing or do I need to start shopping for a new knife?
Sorry for all of the questions, but I have a hard time understanding things that defy common sense. I would expect this from California, but not Texas.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:22 pm
by KD5NRH
dontshakepandas wrote:but I still can't cut things with a 9mm.
Clearly, you've never truly experienced the front sights of some handguns. My PT-99 would open boxes (and gouge the heck out of holsters) just fine when I got it.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:06 pm
by flintknapper
KD5NRH wrote:dontshakepandas wrote:but I still can't cut things with a 9mm.
Clearly, you've never truly experienced the front sights of some handguns. My PT-99 would open boxes (and gouge the heck out of holsters) just fine when I got it.
Roger that, you never saw a "finer edge" than what came on the hammer of my Para P-13.
I found several areas that needed a good dehorning.
Re: URGENT, a Bill on knives could protect your CHL
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:11 pm
by AEA
dontshakepandas wrote: I would expect this from California, but not Texas.
The problem is the Californian's that are moving to Texas and bringing their hair brained ideas with them!
