Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

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CHL/LEO
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Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

Postby CHL/LEO » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:33 am

This was just sent out to all the officers in our department today:

Due to the recent enactment of Senate Bill 1236, citations issued by law enforcement officers are required to contain an admonishment related to possession of firearms, in certain circumstances. Effectively immediately, every citation issued must have this admonishment affixed to the violator’s copy.


SB 1236 amends the Code of Criminal Procedure, art. 14.06 to require that for a person charged with a class C misdemeanor (maximum fine of $500), other than public intoxication, and issued a citation, the citation would have to include the following admonishment in boldfaced or underlined type, or in capital letters:

If you are convicted of a misdemeanor offense involving violence where you are or were a spouse, intimate partner, parent, or guardian of the victim or are or were involved in another, similar relationship with the victim, it may be unlawful for you to possess or purchase a firearm, including a handgun or long gun, or ammunition, pursuant to federal law under 18. U.S.C. Section 922(g)(9) or Section 46.04(b), Texas Penal Code. If you have any questions whether these laws make it illegal for you to possess or purchase a firearm, you should consult an attorney.

The court would be required to issue the same admonishment, orally or in writing, before accepting a plea of guilty or no contest by a defendant charged with a misdemeanor involving family violence. The statement on the citation issued under art. 14.06 could serve as the admonishment if the defendant was charged with a misdemeanor punishable by fine only. At arraignment, before accepting a plea of guilty or no contest, the court no longer would have to admonish the defendant that it was unlawful for the defendant to possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition if the defendant was convicted of a misdemeanor involving family violence. The bill would take effect September 1, 2009, and would apply only to offenses committed on or after this date.

All Class C citations (including traffic tickets) will now include this.
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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

Postby chamberc » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:56 am

CHL/LEO wrote:All Class C citations (including traffic tickets) will now include this.


As in pleading no-contest or guilty to a speeding ticket...

I can't be reading this right...
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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

Postby ELB » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:39 pm

chamberc wrote:
CHL/LEO wrote:All Class C citations (including traffic tickets) will now include this.


As in pleading no-contest or guilty to a speeding ticket...

I can't be reading this right...


No, I don't think you are. (or yes, you are not reading this right). As I see it: The suspension/removal/whatever of right to possess firearms is (only) for misdemeanors involving violence in certain circumstances as listed above in the bold face, not for other Class C misdemeanors. The law concerning violent misdemeanors/family violence has not changed -- what has changed is the law enforcement/judicial process must inform you that your firearm rights are in jeopardy. You are supposed to be notified of this for any Class C misdemeanor citation, violent or not, except for public intoxication.

However, as a bureaucratic procedure, the cops in one particular department are issuing the admonishments with ANY Class C citation they write so they don't have to work through the decision "Do I have to give an admonishment for this particular citation?" on the spot. Write a citation, attach an admonishment. Simple. If applies, then good. If not, then it's just another piece of paper. In all cases, consult a lawyer.

So no, your firearms rights are not in jeopardy for going 10 over the speed limit.

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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

Postby shootthesheet » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:37 pm

That isn't going to confuse people at all. :roll:


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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

Postby srothstein » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:55 pm

ELB wrote:However, as a bureaucratic procedure, the cops in one particular department are issuing the admonishments with ANY Class C citation they write so they don't have to work through the decision "Do I have to give an admonishment for this particular citation?" on the spot. Write a citation, attach an admonishment. Simple. If applies, then good. If not, then it's just another piece of paper.


Just wanted to clarify this a little. The new law is actually requiring this admonishmnet to be printed on all class C tickets. It is not the department doing it to save decision problems. The law was probably written this way to avoid mistakes on the decision process, but it is the law for it to be on all tickets.

The really confusing part is not that the law does not go on tickets for PI, but that you cannot legally (according to this section) issue a ticket for PI. Any ticket gets the warning and traffic violations are actually class C misdemeanors, so they get it to.
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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

Postby ELB » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:59 pm

srothstein wrote:...The new law is actually requiring this admonishmnet to be printed on all class C tickets. ...


I figured it was to simplify the on-the-spot decision-making, I just aimed too low in the bureaucracy... :mrgreen:

thx.

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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

Postby suthdj » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:07 pm

So you can be a convicted felon and own a gun but not if you did something as little as scare a family member enough to call police.
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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

Postby A-R » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:08 am

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding this, but isn't printing of this info on the citation sort of a "good thing" because it wil make sure that people realize they could lose their gun rights if they plead guilty to a Class C with violence against a family member, etc. It's basically just a warning for everyday folks who may not have the money to hire an attorney and are considering a plea deal on a family violence misdemeanor charge. It could help prevent some people from pleading guilty just to "make it go away" without realizing their basically giving up their gun rights when they do so.

Again, I'm just paraphrasing this as I THINK I understand it. IANAL.


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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

Postby Mike1951 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:00 pm

I also think it's a positive thing.

But I wasn't aware of any Class C's that involve domestic violence.
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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

Postby srothstein » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:06 pm

Well, it may turn out to be a good thing for us (citizens and gun owners both) in the long run. A lot of people who never thought about guns either way get tickets every year. Most people have very little faith in traffic courts or fighting tickets, so they just pay them without thinking about it. After all, we all know the consequences of tickets, right? You just get to pay higher insurance bills.

This warning will let everyone know that for some tickets, there are other consequences. Many of these people who do not own guns and don't care if you do have never considered the loss of gun rights. They probably think of felons when they say criminals should not have guns. This will eventually get through to their awareness that there are a lot of people considered criminals who really did nothing wrong. It may get them to start thinking more about when people should lose any of their rights, including guns. If we are really lucky, it will get more people to start thinking about other consequences besides the immediate fine. Then they will start fighting more tickets, or at least fighting for better courts. Any of these possibilities is a benefit to all citizens int he US and Texas, and especially to gun owners.
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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citations

Postby ELB » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:29 pm

Yes, the new law on providing admonishments is a good thing. It's purpose is basically to prevent someone from accidentally forfeiting away his gun rights because he didn't realize that pleading guilty or no contest to a seemingly small offense would have such a far-reaching effect.
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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citati

Postby ericlw » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:39 pm

ok so everyone thinks if you assult someone like your spouse you should be able to keep your chl?

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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citati

Postby Keith B » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:01 pm

ericlw wrote:ok so everyone thinks if you assult someone like your spouse you should be able to keep your chl?


No, but there are a lot of cases where people think they are just pleading guilty to make something that maybe really didn't happen go away easily. There are a lot of folks who are really innocent of the event that take plea bargains because the public defender, lazy lawyer or finances convinces them it's the easy route. In this case, they are alerted that a guilty plea to a Class C Domestic Violence charge, or even disorderly conduct for fighting with your college buddy when drunk, (even if really innocent) could impact their ability to have a CHL. That at least provides the defendant an opportunity to decide if they should push to fight it or if found guilty (or they know they are) then they understand the consequences.
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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citati

Postby Mike1951 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:23 pm

The lawmakers who passed the Violence Against Women Act in 1994 didn't care at all about violence to women or children. It passed because it restricted gun ownership.

Had they really been concerned, they would have elevated such crimes to felonies and the existing laws regarding gun possession would have applied.

Losing one's gun rights due to misdemeanor crimes was a line that should never have been crossed. Stretching it to include Class Cs is idiotic.
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Re: Firearms admonishment now required on all Class C citati

Postby E.Marquez » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:44 pm

ericlw wrote:ok so everyone thinks if you assault someone like your spouse you should be able to keep your chl?

Not in the way you have presented the statement. Dealing with young soldiers and there spouses 24 years now.. I have seen many MP FED LEO or local police called over a shouting match,, slammed door, fist though a wall, door. One or more persons in these events are often charged with a domestic dispute violation,, and even if one of them only "hits" the wall.... it will often go down as domestic violence. What happens at court is another story, never the less there is a paper trail that charges that person with what would be something that is relevant to this discussion.

And lets not even get into disgruntled spouses (male or female) that falsely charge abuse on there partner,, getting them detained, charged, restraining order issued.. all because of a personal dispute.. but NOT because of any real threat or act of violence.

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