Gun Owners Not Welcome on Obama's White House Team?

[kitty]

Gun Owners Not Welcome on Obama's White House Team?
Friday, November 14, 2008
By Susan Jones, Senior Editor

CNSNews.com) – President-elect Barack Obama’s transition team is showing its hostility toward lawful firearm owners by “weeding out” job applicants who own firearms themselves, a Second Amendment group says.

The Illinois State Rifle Association (ISRA) notes that question 59 – part of a 63-item questionnaire given to Obama administration job applicants – asks for information about firearms owned by the applicant and his or her family.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/a ... rcID=39345" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The rest of the article is at the link.

Here's the link to the questionnaire:

http://www.isra-pvf.com/obamaquestionnaire.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Boma]

He's going to disarm us little by little....

[atxgun]

This is scary.

[ScubaSigGuy]

Aww shucks! Does this my application is going to get denied?

[Skiprr]

Aww shucks! Does this mean my application is going to get denied?

No. Actually, I think you're good!

When you wrote "59," they thought you were just repeating the number of the question on the application, not that you were saying you owned 59 semi-automatic firearms...

[tallmike]

He asks if people own guns and if they are currently legal. It does not say he wont hire anyone who owns a gun he is just making sure your gun ownership is legal because if he hires someone who is in violation of their states laws it will come back to bite him in the butt politically.

He also wants to know if anyone has ever been shot with your guns, probably not a bad piece of info for a politician to have for his employees/appointees.

I would guess Bush had a question very similar to that on his questionnaire.


If gun owners keep screaming bloody murder at every innocent thing dealing with guns and Obama then by the time he really goes after guns we will be so widely viewed as paranoid that no reasonable people will pay any attention.

[atxgun]

He asks if people own guns and if they are currently legal. It does not say he wont hire anyone who owns a gun he is just making sure your gun ownership is legal because if he hires someone who is in violation of their states laws it will come back to bite him in the butt politically.

He also wants to know if anyone has ever been shot with your guns, probably not a bad piece of info for a politician to have for his employees/appointees.

I would guess Bush had a question very similar to that on his questionnaire.


If gun owners keep screaming bloody murder at every innocent thing dealing with guns and Obama then by the time he really goes after guns we will be so widely viewed as paranoid that no reasonable people will pay any attention.

But at the same time i'll feel a lot better when he does actually hire a proud firearm owner.

[Oldgringo]

He asks if people own guns and if they are currently legal. It does not say he wont hire anyone who owns a gun he is just making sure your gun ownership is legal because if he hires someone who is in violation of their states laws it will come back to bite him in the butt politically.

He also wants to know if anyone has ever been shot with your guns, probably not a bad piece of info for a politician to have for his employees/appointees.

I would guess Bush had a question very similar to that on his questionnaire.


If gun owners keep screaming bloody murder at every innocent thing dealing with guns and Obama then by the time he really goes after guns we will be so widely viewed as paranoid that no reasonable people will pay any attention.

Golly Gee Whiz, etc! While I sure didn't vote for him, I sure hope that you're right about Obama. OTOH, I wonder how Dick Cheney would answer this question ?

[jimlongley]

He asks if people own guns and if they are currently legal. It does not say he wont hire anyone who owns a gun he is just making sure your gun ownership is legal because if he hires someone who is in violation of their states laws it will come back to bite him in the butt politically.

He also wants to know if anyone has ever been shot with your guns, probably not a bad piece of info for a politician to have for his employees/appointees.

I would guess Bush had a question very similar to that on his questionnaire.


If gun owners keep screaming bloody murder at every innocent thing dealing with guns and Obama then by the time he really goes after guns we will be so widely viewed as paranoid that no reasonable people will pay any attention.

Your defense of bambam's motives is naive at best. The problem is less in the fact that the question is asked and more in its wording. Note that it asks "Do you or any members of your immediate family own a gun?"

So what if you own more than one gun?

"If so, provide complete ownership and registration information."

This presupposes that the state you reside in has registration, and asks for information that is ill defined at best: "complete ownership information" - what's that supposed to mean? If you live in a state that does not have registration, what do you answer? If you answer that it is not registered, which would be correct in Texas, and even in NY and IL in some cases, what does that tell them?

"Has the registration ever lapsed?"

See above.

"Please also describe how and by whom it is used and whether it has been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage.”

So if you shoot IDPA, what does that tell them, or IPSIG, or CAS? What if you have multiple guns and use them in multiple shooting sports? What if you tell them about the shotgun and EBR that you don't shoot except for sighting them in to be sure they are ready for the big crunch.

I think that gun owners have every right to be concerned about questions like this showing up on a document like this, any gun owners, whether or not they voted for bambam.

"Is it still paranoia if they really are out to get you?"

[nitrogen]

I thought employers were allowed to ask whatever they want in order to make hiring decisions, unless those questions are specifically banned by law? (age, religion, etc) If I am wrong, please let me know.

If you don't like it, don't work there!

Besides, considering the type of rhetoric from many gun owners, I doubt many of them would work for Mr. Obama anyway, so I really don't see the problem.

Having said that, I sincerely expect Mr. Obama to hire whoever he feels is most qualified to do work in his cabinet; gun owners or not. To do anything less would be "politics as usual" and not all this ballyhooed "CHANGE!" we've been promised!

In today's climate of "gotcha politics" I don't think it's too unreasonable to thoroughly vette officials that will be in the spotlight, to try and cut down on as many "scandals" that can be unearthed as possible. I'm sure many Conservatives would be looking overtime for them; as did Liberals over the last 8 years.

I know many of us don't like many of Obama's policies. I think we do ourselves a disservice when we jump like rabid dogs at every perceived slight. Much like the dog that cries wolf, if we yelp too much now, we'll be ignored when the real Male Bovine Excrement starts, as I'm sure it will.

(Yeah, it's pretty lame, but I don't see it as that different from any other job, unless we pass a federal law making it against the law to have that be employment criteria. I do not see this happening anytime soon.)

[jimlongley]

Actually, the entire questionnaire is lame, and that from that bastion of liberal thinking, the New York Times, and they even question the gun thing.

Having just finished reading over the whole thing, I have a tendency to agree and begin to wonder when we will find out it's a hoax.

[SCone]

That's alright by me, none of his "team" is welcome in my house at anytime.

[boomerang]

I thought employers were allowed to ask whatever they want in order to make hiring decisions, unless those questions are specifically banned by law? (age, religion, etc) If I am wrong, please let me know.

If you don't like it, don't work there!

What if Bush asked job applicants the following questions?

• Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior?
• Do you or anyone in your family belong to Greenpeace or PETA?
• Have you or anyone in your family ever had an abortion?
• Are you or anyone in your family homosexual? Do they have HIV?
• Are you or any member of your immediate family Muslim? If so, provide complete registration information. Has the registration ever lapsed? Please also describe how and with whom they worship and whether they have been involved in any terrorist act in the United States or abroad.

I think the Left's reaction to any of those questions would make our discussion here seem tame by comparison.

[srothstein]

He asks if people own guns and if they are currently legal. It does not say he wont hire anyone who owns a gun he is just making sure your gun ownership is legal because if he hires someone who is in violation of their states laws it will come back to bite him in the butt politically.

Then why does he not ask if the guns are legal instead of registering them? In Texas, I could not answer his questions about registering or properly transferring because we believe in freedom and do not register guns ro require the ownership to be transferred. While I do believe your statement is what he was intending, the way the question is worded shows a complete lack of understanding of the various states and their diversity in this area.

He also wants to know if anyone has ever been shot with your guns, probably not a bad piece of info for a politician to have for his employees/appointees.

So, when I answer yes, what will he do? Well, actually, I missed and hit the air conditioner behind him, but I tried and my partner did hit him (which is how I missed). One dead robbery suspect who tried to draw on me.

I would guess Bush had a question very similar to that on his questionnaire.

Nope, at least not on the one I filled out (about 40 questions) when I tried to get nominated as the US Marshal for my district. Lots of questions about prior experience in the law enforcement field and management, a few on political history, a few on criminal history, and the general "have you ever done anything that would embarrass the President for nominating you" type. But nothing on gun ownership.

If gun owners keep screaming bloody murder at every innocent thing dealing with guns and Obama then by the time he really goes after guns we will be so widely viewed as paranoid that no reasonable people will pay any attention.

In this case, the very question indicates a concern over an area that should not be able to be used against him. After all, he does support hunters and their rights to own guns, right? I honestly think this question should never have been asked, and reveals a view that a person owning guns is harmful to the image of the nominator. And as for the rest, just because I am paranoid, it does not mean that they are not out to get me (or my guns).

[nitrogen]

I thought employers were allowed to ask whatever they want in order to make hiring decisions, unless those questions are specifically banned by law? (age, religion, etc) If I am wrong, please let me know.

If you don't like it, don't work there!

What if Bush asked job applicants the following questions?

• Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior?

Illegal under federal law. Religious affiliation is a question specifically barred from being asked for jobs. *BZZT*

[*]Do you or anyone in your family belong to Greenpeace or PETA?

Membership in a questionable activist group? Word it "activist group" instead. Don't have a problem with this one, and nobody really should. This is a good example, though you should follow it up with, "have you ever trespassed on oil company property, etc etc."

[*]Have you or anyone in your family ever had an abortion?

Medical records are usually private under federal law. Getting those records to prove or disprove the charge can get the company in trouble under Hippa. This question might be a good one, though, if abortion was illegal in some states.

[*]Are you or anyone in your family homosexual? Do they have HIV?

Again, medical records. HIV status is arguably protected under the Americans with Disabilities act. It's also not illegal to be a homosexual anymore, and being a homosexual doesn't require registration in any state.

[*]Are you or any member of your immediate family Muslim? If so, provide complete registration information. Has the registration ever lapsed? Please also describe how and with whom they worship and whether they have been involved in any terrorist act in the United States or abroad.

Again, religious affiliation is specifically protected under the 1st amendment, and federal law. Registration of Muslims would violate the 1st amendment. You'd be better off asking of any family members are members of terrorist groups, i.e. Hamas.[/list]

I think the Left's reaction to any of those questions would make our discussion here seem tame by comparison.

And rightly so, as most of those questions, unlike the gun question, violate the law, as well as common decency. Conservatives should bristle at many of these questions as well.

THAT is the point I was trying to make, and either it's lost on you, or I didn't make it very well.
My point, distilled:
1) the question doesn't violate the law, but is in poor taste.
2) if you don't like it, work somewhere else.
3) The question can be pointed out to be asking about any possible violations of the law, or other legal problems that the administration might need to know about. Notice the question didn't stop with "do you own a gun" but it asks about legal issues about owning a gun, such as lapsed registration.

As another user on here points out, gun owners are not a protected class under the EEOC.

For further reading:
http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/qanda_religion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


EDITED TO ADD:

In this case, the very question indicates a concern over an area that should not be able to be used against him. After all, he does support hunters and their rights to own guns, right? I honestly think this question should never have been asked, and reveals a view that a person owning guns is harmful to the image of the nominator. And as for the rest, just because I am paranoid, it does not mean that they are not out to get me (or my guns).

I can agree with this 100%. I'm basically playing devils advocate here; because I don't automatically hate everything Obama does.

People's behavior lately is eerily reminiscent of liberals over the past 8 years. I honestly thought conservatives and republicans would be acting better than that, but apparently I expect too much. There will be plenty of legitimate things to complain about over the next 4 or 8 years, I'm sure.

Also, noting Obama's anti-gun stance, couldn't you see a Drudge Report (or a huffpo) headline like:
"ANTI GUN PRESIDENT APPOINTS XXX FOR YYY CABINET POSITION, WHILE XXX OWNS 3 HANDGUNS WITH LAPSED REGISTRATION!!!"