Interesting Legal Issue

[RossA]

Generally, in order to claim self defense, one must be in a place where he has a legal right to be. For example, the bad guy who broke into your house can't shoot back when you shoot at him and claim self defense. He is a trespasser, so he loses that defense.
Obviously, if you illegally carry past a properly posted 30.06/30.07/51% sign you are not legally on the premises. You are a trespasser.
But what if no signs are posted, and a place is not otherwise legally prohibited, but you have an agreement not to carry there? For example, you belong to a club, group, etc., and your membership agreement says "no firearms." Since there is no sign properly posted, you carry concealed anyway, and no one knows.
Now, one day you have to use your gun in what would normally be justified self defense. Are you legally on the premises or not? There are no legal signs posted, but you have the agreement saying that you won't carry.
Not sure I know the answer to this one.

[Liberty]

Now, one day you have to use your gun in what would normally be justified self defense. Are you legally on the premises or not? There are no legal signs posted, but you have the agreement saying that you won't carry.
Not sure I know the answer to this one.

Maybe we are better off not knowing. Self-defense is no time to be second guessing whether something is legal or not.
Shoot first and then worry about the legal ramifications later.

[ScottDLS]

Generally, in order to claim self defense, one must be in a place where he has a legal right to be. For example, the bad guy who broke into your house can't shoot back when you shoot at him and claim self defense. He is a trespasser, so he loses that defense.
Obviously, if you illegally carry past a properly posted 30.06/30.07/51% sign you are not legally on the premises. You are a trespasser.
But what if no signs are posted, and a place is not otherwise legally prohibited, but you have an agreement not to carry there? For example, you belong to a club, group, etc., and your membership agreement says "no firearms." Since there is no sign properly posted, you carry concealed anyway, and no one knows.
Now, one day you have to use your gun in what would normally be justified self defense. Are you legally on the premises or not? There are no legal signs posted, but you have the agreement saying that you won't carry.
Not sure I know the answer to this one.

There is no crime committed by carrying past non-compliant notice...my argument would be that the criminal code does not address civil trespassing with respect to the justification for use of deadly force in self defense.

[jb2012]

I would think this is similar to the argument that you cannot use your firearm in a defense situation if you do not have your card with you (i.e. Left wallet in other location etc.). I think that you might be charged with trespassing under some circumstances, maybe most, however I don't think you would be charged with anything else; provided the rest of your actions were justified. (Also provided you are not in harris or travis county )

Just my .02 but I could be 100% wrong
Edit: this should in no way be interpreted as legal advice

[Jusme]

Just my 2 cents, but an agreement by belonging to a club, or organization, with an agreement not to carry, to me, is a civil issue, and not enforceable by law. The only way, in that instance you could be charged with trespass, is if you had been asked to leave and you did not do so. So unless they somehow managed to yell out for you to leave just before you squeezed the trigger, I don't think it would put you in a "criminal" situation. Also, if you are a "member" your right to be there would supersede a non member, coming in to do harm.
IANAL so better legal minds may contradict this.

[ninjabread]

Generally, in order to claim self defense, one must be in a place where he has a legal right to be.

That's not required for self defense, only for the explicit "not required to retreat" before using force or deadly force in self defense

[Wolfgang]

Let your "yes" be yes and your "no" be no.
Do not say or give an indicator that says "I agree" if you don't.
Just because it is civil in nature doesn't mean it is any less dishonest.
If you do not agree do not join.

[JustSomeOldGuy]

Can I use 9.22-Necessity? The need to defend myself from felony assault supercedes an until-then-undiscovered Class C misdemeanor offense?

[Abraham]

I agree with Wolfgang.

[ScottDLS]

Can I use 9.22-Necessity? The need to defend myself from felony assault supercedes an until-then-undiscovered Class C misdemeanor offense?

It's not a class C misdemeanor to pass a non compliant sign. It's not a crime at all, simply a civil matter.

[bigtek]

It's not a class C misdemeanor to pass a non compliant sign. It's not a crime at all, simply a civil matter.

On the other hand, smoking within 25 feet of a building entrance or operable window violates the Houston Smoking Ordinance. You better hope you're not attacked if you violate that law.

[ScottDLS]

It's not a class C misdemeanor to pass a non compliant sign. It's not a crime at all, simply a civil matter.

On the other hand, smoking within 25 feet of a building entrance or operable window violates the Houston Smoking Ordinance. You better hope you're not attacked if you violate that law.

Right and AFAIK Texas never recognized a "duty to retreat" anyway and it was eliminated in legislation so that a judge or AG couldn't make one up. The law gives you an automatic presumption of justification when you are not committing any other offense, it doesn't eliminate that presumption if you are.

[RossA]

Yep, believe it or not, Texas was a "retreat" state until about ten years ago. Didn't have to retreat inside of your home, but anywhere else it was a requirement if you could safely do so.

[Jusme]

Yep, believe it or not, Texas was a "retreat" state until about ten years ago. Didn't have to retreat inside of your home, but anywhere else it was a requirement if you could safely do so.

Yes that was a point driven into me while in the police academy. The use of deadly force for self defense had to "prove" that they had no way out first. In fact the first known Texas CHL shooting occurred when a man chased someone in his vehicle, got out after the pursuee was stopped by traffic, and began punching him. The CHL holder had to show that he had done everything he could to "retreat" before he put two rounds center mass. He was no-billed.

[Jago668]

By no means a lawyer. You can get into a Costco without a membership. One of their gift cards, and (so I've been told) if you are buying alcohol. Never tested it, as I don't want to give them my business. Seems odd that I wouldn't be trespassing, but a member would be. Guess it really depends on the DA, judge, and jury you get if it goes there.