Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

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Soccerdad1995
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:52 am

bmwrdr wrote:Gun or wheed? Nothing wron with a gun-less substance dependent person.
:cheers2:


Do you feel the same way about those who are prescribed meds for chronic pain?
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canvasbck
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby canvasbck » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:09 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
bmwrdr wrote:Gun or wheed? Nothing wron with a gun-less substance dependent person.
:cheers2:


Do you feel the same way about those who are prescribed meds for chronic pain?


I was about to go here too. bmwrdr, would you be OK with police seizing your guns because you came home from knee surgery with your prescribed pain meds?

Being opposed to medical or recreational marijuana is a separate issue from being opposed to govt seizure of arms.
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bmwrdr
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby bmwrdr » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:05 pm

canvasbck wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
bmwrdr wrote:Gun or wheed? Nothing wron with a gun-less substance dependent person.
:cheers2:


Do you feel the same way about those who are prescribed meds for chronic pain?


I was about to go here too. bmwrdr, would you be OK with police seizing your guns because you came home from knee surgery with your prescribed pain meds?

Being opposed to medical or recreational marijuana is a separate issue from being opposed to govt seizure of arms.


I am opposed to guns in the hand of a criminal, mentally I;; or impaired person at any time and any place, period.
I am opposed to drugs, especially if promoted to minors with no obvious reason, the same applies to alcohol.
A person not needing drugs does not need drugs or a treatment. Drugs and alcohol are a merchandise on the market and people consume it, I understand that part. What I don't understand is simply why would anybody get himself into a dependency. Best guess is those can't make a decision for themselves.
So why would anybody promote the benefits of marijuana without talking about the negative side? In particular who pays for it and who is responsible for the consequences?
In regards to guns, we have a regulation in place, felons, non residents, unconvicted criminals in progress committing a crime can not be in possession of a firearm by law. The same applies to the underaged and it is a law. Disobeying laws will get anybody in trouble if caught. No question or doubt about it.
We all know that bad things are happening with guns, those deeds are immediate and people get hurt or killed instantly.
With drugs alcohol or other substances the effect is not immediate in most cases. There are laws and regulations in place which are disobeyed at a much larger scale as in regards to gun crimes.
I am sure crime will always exist but I would not promote a gun sale to a person I am not aware of his background.
I would not talk about the benefits of marijuana without talking about the negative side.

Now let me ask you pro or not pro marijuana guys. Would you like to see a somebody promoting or selling wheed to your children?

:coolgleamA:

P.S.: I doo like a good beer on occasions but I would not drink and drive and my firearm is locked up if and when I do. In regards to wheed, I have never used any of it but I have dealt with marijuana and drug users of all kind. I have seen coworkers being fired not passing a drug test, I have seen heroin addicted people and know how they ruined their live and health. All of those I know said they started with marijuana or haschisch (same thing to my best knowledge). All oof them had a financial problem of some sort.
Would I touch it? I don't need that and I won't hang out or around those either.
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bmwrdr
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby bmwrdr » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:08 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
bmwrdr wrote:Gun or wheed? Nothing wron with a gun-less substance dependent person.
:cheers2:


Do you feel the same way about those who are prescribed meds for chronic pain?


Please see my other responses to this topic. A regulated medication described by a doctor is one side of the story.
Using and abusing it without any real plausible or made up reason, surely not.
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby Liberty » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:17 pm

I don't think anyone is promotiong recreation weed, We are for the most part just discussiing the issue of doctor prescribed medication. I for one don't promote or recommend recreational weed. The issue on the original post is about legally prescribed medication.

I think that the point is missed that things like cannabis oils are criminalized and have no psychotropic effects nor any other bad sad effects and can drastically improve peoples lives.

Therapeutically prescribed marijuana can drastically improve the lives of cancer patients chronic pain, and PTSD victims. The drugs normally prescribed for these people are much more damaging to folks and the community than the weed. I suspect that a properly managed and regulated program might actually take it some of it off the streets and away from the children. There is an opioid epidemic coming our way, At least with weed no one overdoses and dies.

Personally, I don't want it, and I don't need it Im am blessed with reasonably good health.
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby parabelum » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:25 pm

Liberty wrote:The canaboid treatments I was referring to do not involve THC. There is no high involved. The medications I was referring to were for treating symptoms of certain forms of epilepsy and Parkinsons disease. Because they are derived from certain Cannibus plants they are illegal. There are certain salves and creams that have had had therapeutic benefits.

Even the regular weed, has proven beneficial for PTSD victims. With fewer nasty side effects.


I was with you just about up until the part in red above. Do you have a reliable unbiased statistical reference to support that claim?
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby parabelum » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:41 pm

As far as this Hawaii gestapo letter to surrender guns if using medicinal marijuana, I oppose it.

Regular weed (THC present) different story. Medicinal weed where there is no THC, no “high”, should not exclude someone from gun ownership. My opinion, and I have no horse in that race.
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby bmwrdr » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:45 pm

Liberty wrote:I don't think anyone is promotiong recreation weed, We are for the most part just discussiing the issue of doctor prescribed medication. I for one don't promote or recommend recreational weed. The issue on the original post is about legally prescribed medication.

I think that the point is missed that things like cannabis oils are criminalized and have no psychotropic effects nor any other bad sad effects and can drastically improve peoples lives.

Therapeutically prescribed marijuana can drastically improve the lives of cancer patients chronic pain, and PTSD victims. The drugs normally prescribed for these people are much more damaging to folks and the community than the weed. I suspect that a properly managed and regulated program might actually take it some of it off the streets and away from the children. There is an opioid epidemic coming our way, At least with weed no one overdoses and dies.

Personally, I don't want it, and I don't need it Im am blessed with reasonably good health.


I don't doubt there are benefits in well professionaly applied cannabis based treatments. I just talk of live experience and what I read in the news.
I am also a firm believer in natural healing vs. going to a plain pill doctor and using the chemical hammer.

The initial topic was actually about the way Hawai handles the law about guns and marijuana patients with a medical "marijuana card."

I guess the discussion went a bit out of alignement but was productive in my opinion.

I'm glad you are blessed with health and so am I. Whatever live will bring, I will prefer Garlic, herps green tea and a vegetable diet anytime over medical wheed, period. Perhaps a good quality beer is better evry once in a while than over the counter medicaments ever will be.

:cheers2:
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby bmwrdr » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:48 pm

parabelum wrote:
Liberty wrote:The canaboid treatments I was referring to do not involve THC. There is no high involved. The medications I was referring to were for treating symptoms of certain forms of epilepsy and Parkinsons disease. Because they are derived from certain Cannibus plants they are illegal. There are certain salves and creams that have had had therapeutic benefits.

Even the regular weed, has proven beneficial for PTSD victims. With fewer nasty side effects.


I was with you just about up until the part in red above. Do you have a reliable unbiased statistical reference to support that claim?


You may not have a horse in that race but many do and it is NOT in OUR best interest!
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby Liberty » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:00 pm

parabelum wrote:
Liberty wrote:The canaboid treatments I was referring to do not involve THC. There is no high involved. The medications I was referring to were for treating symptoms of certain forms of epilepsy and Parkinsons disease. Because they are derived from certain Cannibus plants they are illegal. There are certain salves and creams that have had had therapeutic benefits.

Even the regular weed, has proven beneficial for PTSD victims. With fewer nasty side effects.


I was with you just about up until the part in red above. Do you have a reliable unbiased statistical reference to support that claim?

What part do you disagree with? That PTSD victims can benefit? or that the side effects are not as bad as some of the drugs they normally prescribe? My use of "proven beneficial" might be misguided. To be honest I have only seen anecdotal claims, but some of them are pretty convincing. The thing is there isn't much scientific research done about weed because most drug research is funded by federal government grants and since weed is illegal there are no funds.
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby bmwrdr » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:18 pm

Liberty wrote:
parabelum wrote:
Liberty wrote:...
My use of "proven beneficial" might be misguided. To be honest I have only seen anecdotal claims, but some of them are pretty convincing. The thing is there isn't much scientific research done about weed because most drug research is funded by federal government grants and since weed is illegal there are no funds.


California and Colorado should be able to publish sssuch statistics by now. I was reading several articles about that topic in the past but there was no tangible benefit to marijuana mentioned. One was about a study in Zurich/ Switzerland and they said the program attracted more homeless and needy than they anticipated and the other one was about Amsterdam with about the same result. Their intent was to decimate the illegal drug scene but the effort went the wrong way.
Doctors may not neccesarily voice an opinion about the topic because the pharmaceutical companies may shaft one or the other by doing so.
All those topics can be researched on the web and some plausible and credible sources are out there.
I ca,e to the conclusion that the whole hype of legalizing marijuana is just made up by some and some others with the help of some politicians are gaining financially. Or are there some real world people which actually can proof the advantages over the disadvantages of legalized marijuana? The only positive article I remember was about Jimmy Carters successful treatment.
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby Pariah3j » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:17 pm

I'll never understand why so many 'Liberty-minded' people are so quick to take away something because they don't agree with it or its something they wouldn't do... You don't like smoking tobacco - then don't. Don't like smoking in bars, don't go there - Government shouldn't be used to regulate morals. You think weed is the Devil's lettuce - then don't use it.

I don't think anything that grows naturally should be regulated by the Government or be allowed to be restricted so Drug companies can sell it back to us. It's akin to stripping a right away from someone and then selling it back to them in the form of a permit.

And as far as the drug dealer angle - guess what, if we would just legalize it - you'd put them out of a job. Did we not learn any lessons from the prohibition on alcohol?
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby bmwrdr » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:32 pm

Pariah3j wrote:I'll never understand why so many 'Liberty-minded' people are so quick to take away something because they don't agree with it or its something they wouldn't do... You don't like smoking tobacco - then don't. Don't like smoking in bars, don't go there - Government shouldn't be used to regulate morals. You think weed is the Devil's lettuce - then don't use it.

I don't think anything that grows naturally should be regulated by the Government or be allowed to be restricted so Drug companies can sell it back to us. It's akin to stripping a right away from someone and then selling it back to them in the form of a permit.

And as far as the drug dealer angle - guess what, if we would just legalize it - you'd put them out of a job. Did we not learn any lessons from the prohibition on alcohol?


Some is just not edible or poisoness like autumn skullcap (Galerina marginata) or several other species of mushrooms to bring up an example.

As far as the drug dealer angle goes we can't put them out of business in leess we really do it. History shows legalizing won't solve the issue and we do not need to discuss this topic either. Others tried it an it did not work or remove the problem. The only benefit would be a lower jail population but that would also mean a higher crime rate. See Switzerland, Germany and several other countries which have or had a program like that, Amsterdam comes to my mind. The drug mafia and gangs still exist and they adapted faster than any Government by hiring high profile lawyers to get away with their business.

Educating people about the negative sides and consequences are the better way to solve that problem. I also think higher jail terms for drug dealers would have a better effect.

Not saying anything and ignoring the problem will and did allow such a sub culture to grow and to exist,

And yes, you are right, you don't lile it then don't buy it is a good concept but not a solution.

:tiphat:
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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby CleverNickname » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:41 pm

Liberty wrote:
CleverNickname wrote:It's not that difficult. If you don't want your guns taken away, don't commit what is still a disqualifying federal crime for firearm possession.

This is about Medical Marijuana
It could be a difficult choice if you are treating a disease that a marijuana product will alleviate. There are some illnesses that have had dramatic results with cannabis products. These people are required to make a choice of either improving their health and quality of life, or the right to protect themselves. Many cannabis products have no THC and will not get anyone high buying this stuff. Other tough choices could be buying this stuff for or child so that they can live a normal life, or become a felon.

You're arguing what you think the law should be. I merely stated what the law is. Those are two separate discussions.

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Re: Honolulu PD begins confiscation of registered guns...

Postby Liberty » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:01 pm

CleverNickname wrote:
Liberty wrote:
CleverNickname wrote:It's not that difficult. If you don't want your guns taken away, don't commit what is still a disqualifying federal crime for firearm possession.

This is about Medical Marijuana
It could be a difficult choice if you are treating a disease that a marijuana product will alleviate. There are some illnesses that have had dramatic results with cannabis products. These people are required to make a choice of either improving their health and quality of life, or the right to protect themselves. Many cannabis products have no THC and will not get anyone high buying this stuff. Other tough choices could be buying this stuff for or child so that they can live a normal life, or become a felon.

You're arguing what you think the law should be. I merely stated what the law is. Those are two separate discussions.

You correctly stated what the choices are. I just explained that the choices available could be difficult some in some circumstances.
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