Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

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superstar
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Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby superstar » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:02 pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/f ... -1.3762477

This is a stain for the LTC community, a sad and tragic event that could have been avoided.

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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby Jusme » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:20 pm

superstar wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/family-slain-teen-fled-iraq-safest-place-world-article-1.3762477

This is a stain for the LTC community, a sad and tragic event that could have been avoided.



I will withhold judgement until more info is forthcoming. So far all we have is one side of the story. Even the statement, that " no punches were thrown" is not an indicator that the shooter, did not fear for his safety. I wasn't there, and did not witness the incident, so anything I could add would be conjecture.
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby Pawpaw » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:35 pm

There's a (very) little bit more information here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/minn-teen-killed-daring-armed-man-shoot-crash-article-1.3759085

One thing that tells me there might be more to the situation:

The slain teen’s passenger claims he watched his pal, Muhammed Rahim, 17, confront an armed man itching for a fight after their two vehicles crashed Sunday morning in Rochester.

"My friend got in his face, and then the guy we hit pulled a gun out,” Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”

So, it appears the "victim" may have initially been the aggressor. On the flip side, the mug shot of the shooter does not inspire confidence.
Last edited by Pawpaw on Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby ninjabread » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:00 pm

The NY Daily News has an anti gun agenda so I take their story with a grain of salt. With that disclaimer out of the way.

Rahim is believed to have crashed into the other vehicle after sliding into a ditch, veering out in reverse and then striking the second car, according to police.
“My friend got in his face, and then the guy we hit pulled a gun out,” Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV.

Rahim negligently caused the wreck and then verbally confronted the guy he crashed into. In response to the verbal threats, the victim drew his handgun. In response to the handgun, Rahim escalated the situation further instead of backing off. He continued to pose an immediate proximate threat to the guy he crashed into. This is according to Rahim's friend, by the way.

Weiss claims he acted in self-defense because he feared his life was in danger.

Seems legit.
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby stroo » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:23 pm

A punch doesn't need to be thrown to justify acting in self defense.

However from the pictures, I don't see a disparity of force argument working. And simply daring someone to shoot doesn't justify shooting.

It will be interesting to see how this works out.


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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby BBYC » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:18 pm

Maybe he was confused if there wasn't a sign like back home.

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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby WTR » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:44 pm

I had much the same done to me. I simply stayed in my truck and kept my pistol at the ready ( in the case he began breaking windows).I exited my truck when the Deputies arrived.

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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby AndyC » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:50 pm

... Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”

If that part's even true. What if the dead guy actually attacked the armed fellow and the surviving buddy is merely trying to make the shooter look bad?
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:07 pm

stroo wrote:A punch doesn't need to be thrown to justify acting in self defense.

However from the pictures, I don't see a disparity of force argument working. And simply daring someone to shoot doesn't justify shooting.

It will be interesting to see how this works out.


The passenger was close enough to hear what the two men were saying. That means he was out of his vehicle. Two against one, where the assailants are clearly willing to press the attack despite the presence of a gun? I dunno. Sounds like it might be a disparity of force to me. Once the two attackers manage to knock their victim down and disarm him, he is done. It is way too late for him to defend himself at that point.

I would ask the police captain whether one of his officers would be justified in shooting when confronted with two aggressive men who were "getting in the officers face" and refusing to back down even after the officer drew his weapon. If he charges this LTCer, how would he justify not charging one of his officers in the same situation? Or does he require his officers to first take a punch before they can fire? I hope that's not the case.
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:09 pm

Pawpaw wrote:There's a (very) little bit more information here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/minn-teen-killed-daring-armed-man-shoot-crash-article-1.3759085

One thing that tells me there might be more to the situation:

The slain teen’s passenger claims he watched his pal, Muhammed Rahim, 17, confront an armed man itching for a fight after their two vehicles crashed Sunday morning in Rochester.

"My friend got in his face, and then the guy we hit pulled a gun out,” Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”

So, it appears the "victim" may have initially been the aggressor. On the flip side, the mug shot of the shooter does not inspire confidence.


What's wrong with guy's mug shot? I don't see any tattoos. He has short hair. Looks like a normal guy to me.
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby Jusme » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:53 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:There's a (very) little bit more information here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/minn-teen-killed-daring-armed-man-shoot-crash-article-1.3759085

One thing that tells me there might be more to the situation:

The slain teen’s passenger claims he watched his pal, Muhammed Rahim, 17, confront an armed man itching for a fight after their two vehicles crashed Sunday morning in Rochester.

"My friend got in his face, and then the guy we hit pulled a gun out,” Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”

So, it appears the "victim" may have initially been the aggressor. On the flip side, the mug shot of the shooter does not inspire confidence.


What's wrong with guy's mug shot? I don't see any tattoos. He has short hair. Looks like a normal guy to me.



:iagree:

This occurred in Minnesota, very cold outside. Shooter probably had on winter headwear, which was removed for the photo. It's hard to comb your hair while wearing handcuffs. Add the stress of having to use a gun in a SD situation, immediately following a traffic accident, then being arrested. My mug shot would, more than likely, not make the cover of GQ.
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:53 am

Jusme wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:There's a (very) little bit more information here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/minn-teen-killed-daring-armed-man-shoot-crash-article-1.3759085

One thing that tells me there might be more to the situation:

The slain teen’s passenger claims he watched his pal, Muhammed Rahim, 17, confront an armed man itching for a fight after their two vehicles crashed Sunday morning in Rochester.

"My friend got in his face, and then the guy we hit pulled a gun out,” Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”

So, it appears the "victim" may have initially been the aggressor. On the flip side, the mug shot of the shooter does not inspire confidence.


What's wrong with guy's mug shot? I don't see any tattoos. He has short hair. Looks like a normal guy to me.



:iagree:

This occurred in Minnesota, very cold outside. Shooter probably had on winter headwear, which was removed for the photo. It's hard to comb your hair while wearing handcuffs. Add the stress of having to use a gun in a SD situation, immediately following a traffic accident, then being arrested. My mug shot would, more than likely, not make the cover of GQ.


If I had to randomly guess at the shooter's occupation based solely on the picture, I would probably say either LEO or military.
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby montgomery » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:00 am

... Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”


Everyone knows that self defense applies as a legal defense only on double dog dares.

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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby anygunanywhere » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:12 am

montgomery wrote:
... Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”


Everyone knows that self defense applies as a legal defense only on double dog dares.


Excellent point.
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Postby JustSomeOldGuy » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:26 am

Umm, citing the precedent in "A Christmas Story", are you sure it doesn't require a TRIPLE DOG DARE? :biggrinjester:
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