21 or older to buy AR-15?

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mrvmax
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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#16

Post by mrvmax »

Mass shootings are far from the leading cause of death in the US. I see no point in banning anything firearms related, I should not lose my rights because of a few people. You have a much greater likihood if being killed from an alcohol related incident than from a mass shooting so we need a ban on alcohol. Wait, that didn’t work did it. So let’s limit the size of beer, wine and whiskey, maybe that will work.
If you research Australia’s gun ban you will find that shootings were reduced but you will also see that they have more guns now than before the gun control. Banning guns or things gun related is not the solution.

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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#17

Post by philbo »

Oldgringo wrote:A firepower limit is a firepower limit. That said, I can't recall any instance where a shotgun was used to gun down masses of folk?
While semiauto handguns and rifles are the most popular, there was a recent incident using a shotgun as the primary weapon in the Washington Navy Yard shooting in 2013:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washingto ... d_shooting
Oldgringo wrote:BTW, our founding fathers' rifles, you know, the guys who drafted the Constitution with its beautiful 2nd Amendment, had a magazine capacity of ONE (1).
Firearms capable of firing multiple times were not unknown to the Founding Fathers. This 22 shot air rifle was obtained by Jefferson in 1780 and used by Lewis & Clark to great effect on their journey west later.
https://www.truthrevolt.org/news/thomas ... rifle-1870

as well as the Puckle Gun in 1718... the first machine gun:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#18

Post by The Annoyed Man »

anygunanywhere wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Oldgringo wrote: I'll be really surprised if the issue of high(?) capacity magazines doesn't come up again real soon. I, for one, won't have a problem with it.
Define "high capacity". How does adding 1 second for a reload every 10 rounds change things dramatically?
IIRC, the last time the high cap issue rose its head, high was generally defined as >10. As for reload time, I'm not qualified to answer that except that I can't reload nothin' in one second.

Since we're on the subject, where is the big objection to shotguns being limited to three shots for fur and feathers. That has been the rule ever since I was knee high to a grasshopper.
Let's see, apple meet orange.
A firepower limit is a firepower limit. That said, I can't recall any instance where a shotgun was used to gun down masses of folk?

BTW, our founding fathers' rifles, you know, the guys who drafted the Constitution with its beautiful 2nd Amendment, had a magazine capacity of ONE (1).
True, but the rifles they were using were the ones used by the military at the time. which is what the second amendment is all about. Well, that and the shall not be infringed thing, which is what you are advocating.
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AF-Odin
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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#19

Post by AF-Odin »

On the age thing, I personally have no problem upping it to 21 for all firearms for PURCHASE. Possession should be at the discretion of parents. I know there will be those that state that they can enlist etc at 18 so why not let them buy guns. I see those folks EVERY DAY on Fort Hood and the vast majority of the time, they only have their weapons under fairly tight supervision of NCOs. I can't count the number of times I have seen these young Soldiers point the muzzle at others or the number of negligent discharges here and in theater. Got so bad a few years ago that an order was put out that any ND would be an Article 15 offense. There are more than a few reasons why body armor is mandated for most range operations.

I for one would LOVE to see the voting age raised BACK to 21. During the last presidential election, it was amazing the number of high school students who were turning out to vote. Some might assert good citizenship, but what I saw was kids voting the way their teachers told them--no, I did not see their ballots, but I did see their "H" Tee Shirts or the "I'm with Her" stickers on their cars.

Sorry for the curmudgeonly rant, but see too many "call of duty" teens that do not really understand the capability of a firearm and that death or disability are permanent.
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bblhd672
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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#20

Post by bblhd672 »

Did the forum name change from TexasCHLForum to TexasMomsDemandAction? :banghead:
The left lies about everything. Truth is a liberal value, and truth is a conservative value, but it has never been a left-wing value. People on the left say whatever advances their immediate agenda. Power is their moral lodestar; therefore, truth is always subservient to it. - Dennis Prager

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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#21

Post by flechero »

Oldgringo wrote: BTW, our founding fathers' rifles, you know, the guys who drafted the Constitution with its beautiful 2nd Amendment, had a magazine capacity of ONE (1).
In fairness to a quality discussion, they were also gearing up to fight against the army or gov't who at that time also had single shots. I believe the AR15 is the civilian version of the "musket" of today. There were a few (but rare) examples otherwise, as mentioned above... but by and large it was musket or cannon- both single shot.

rotor
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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#22

Post by rotor »

Go back to the Connecticut mass shooting, the AR was purchased by the mother, she was then killed by her mentally deranged son who then proceeded on to the school to kill those teachers and students. The obvious defect is the mentally deranged shooter and not the gun or the magazine size.

One also needs to sit back and reflect that the most common cause of teenage death at this time is texting and driving. 11 teens are lost with this behavior every day. Texting and driving in Texas is illegal. Does making it illegal reduce the number of deaths? You answer that one.

Now back to the op's question, the answer is no. The very question itself implies that the AR15 is a unique and dangerous device. No more dangerous than any other rifle or shotgun I own. As a matter of fact, for home defense I prefer a shotgun.

Short of a complete ban on civilian owned firearms school shootings will not stop. There are crazy people and there is nothing that will pre-detect and stop them from killing innocents. The weapons they use will be whatever is to their liking.

In my local paper I read a report of a hunting rifle used to kill 5 and injure 4 at a church the other day (not exact on the numbers but I believe I am correct). Happened in Russia.

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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#23

Post by rotor »

flechero wrote:
Oldgringo wrote: BTW, our founding fathers' rifles, you know, the guys who drafted the Constitution with its beautiful 2nd Amendment, had a magazine capacity of ONE (1).
In fairness to a quality discussion, they were also gearing up to fight against the army or gov't who at that time also had single shots. I believe the AR15 is the civilian version of the "musket" of today. There were a few (but rare) examples otherwise, as mentioned above... but by and large it was musket or cannon- both single shot.
You are absolutely correct and this argument is always used by the left. The 2A is to protect us from government and they no longer come after you with single shot flintlocks. Although not supportive of the Branch Davidians we saw what firepower they brought to Waco to kill men, women and children.

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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#24

Post by G40yes »

TAM wrote:
It’s one thing to say that it’s a subject on the table for discussion, but it would be completely unacceptable if the conclusion of that discussion was anything other than, ‘no, we’re not going to raise the age limit on our fellow citizens’.
Well said. Sorry I'm slow to respond to the discussion, had to fit in range time after work and commute. I definitely agree that rights and responsibilities for voting and gun ownership require about the same levels of maturity.
.. tyrants accomplish their purposes ...by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms. - Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, 1840
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Oldgringo
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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#25

Post by Oldgringo »

The Annoyed Man wrote:
{snip}

True, but the rifles they were using were the ones used by the military at the time. which is what the second amendment is all about. Well, that and the shall not be infringed thing, which is what you are advocating.
Please be careful, TAM. Your statement plays right into the hands of the liberals who say....well, you know what they say about the 2nd Amendment in particular, and the Constitution in general.

jb2012
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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#26

Post by jb2012 »

bblhd672 wrote:Did the forum name change from TexasCHLForum to TexasMomsDemandAction? :banghead:
I was thinking the same. What a joke. I thought this was a pro-gun forum.
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Beiruty
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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#27

Post by Beiruty »

mrvmax wrote:Mass shootings are far from the leading cause of death in the US. I see no point in banning anything firearms related, I should not lose my rights because of a few people. You have a much greater likihood if being killed from an alcohol related incident than from a mass shooting so we need a ban on alcohol. Wait, that didn’t work did it. So let’s limit the size of beer, wine and whiskey, maybe that will work.
If you research Australia’s gun ban you will find that shootings were reduced but you will also see that they have more guns now than before the gun control. Banning guns or things gun related is not the solution.
Alcohol related death incidents some 30,000 per year.
Drug related death incidents some 50,000 per year.
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Jeff B.
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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#28

Post by Jeff B. »

I'm all about consistency.

If we're going to raise the purchase age for an AR to 21, we need to also see that the consumption age (taken care of), voting age and draft also rise to 21.

In the cases we're looking at, there are massive indicators, if not flat our finger pointing at these folks. Is there never going to be a real discussion regarding mental health and threats of a public nature?

Jeff B.
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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#29

Post by SQLGeek »

jb2012 wrote:
bblhd672 wrote:Did the forum name change from TexasCHLForum to TexasMomsDemandAction? :banghead:
I was thinking the same. What a joke. I thought this was a pro-gun forum.
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: 21 or older to buy AR-15?

#30

Post by The Annoyed Man »

Oldgringo wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
{snip}

True, but the rifles they were using were the ones used by the military at the time. which is what the second amendment is all about. Well, that and the shall not be infringed thing, which is what you are advocating.
Please be careful, TAM. Your statement plays right into the hands of the liberals who say....well, you know what they say about the 2nd Amendment in particular, and the Constitution in general.
That wasn’t my statement, it was anygunanywhere’s.
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