Ban Cops from Glocks

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parabelum
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby parabelum » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:34 pm

cmgee67 wrote:Ill stick with my Glocks.


:iagree:

And I'll add H&K as well as FiveSeven. Those are the only semi auto guns I've owned that never gave me an issue. They just work right out of box.
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby cmgee67 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:38 pm

parabelum wrote:
cmgee67 wrote:Ill stick with my Glocks.


:iagree:

And I'll add H&K as well as FiveSeven. Those are the only semi auto guns I've owned that never gave me an issue. They just work right out of box.



I'll say yes to the H&K for sure! Never had a chance to mess with FiveSeven although I want to!
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parabelum
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby parabelum » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:38 pm

Liberty wrote:An Op Ed in the LA times proposes that cops should be banned packing Glocks.
LA Times OpEd
The underlying problem with these pistols is a short trigger pull and the lack of an external safety. In real-world encounters, a short trigger pull can be lethal, in part because a significant percentage of law enforcement officers — some experts say as high as 20% — put their finger on the trigger of their weapons when under stress. According to firearms trainers, most officers are completely unaware of their tendency to do this and have a hard time believing it, even when they're shown video evidence from training exercises.


Is it the Glocks fault, the LEOs or the training? If the short trigger pull is the problem, I take it he wouldn't like 1911's either. I used to see a lot off cops with Beretta 92s. Not so much any more.


I blame the leadership, or lack thereof. Fish rots from the head down. Lower standards for those up top trickle down.

Nothing wrong with Glock in my very humble opinion.
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby OlBill » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:43 pm

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Glocks.

I think they do require extensive training in the fundamentals , especially when switching from another weapon.

Of course we could all do with more training in the fundamentals on whatever we shoot.

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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby The Annoyed Man » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:01 pm

cmgee67 wrote:And friend of mine used to work for Dallas PD and he said when he was there 1911's were banned because two officers he knew at Dallas were in a gun fight and both got killed because their 1911's jammed. I' don't remember if it was two separate gun fights or the same one but nevertheless ,That's why I don't, I won't, and I will never trust a 1911 to save my life. Every 1911 I've used or handled have all jammed or malfunctioned in one way or another. Ruger, kimber, colt, Springfield, and a couple others. I have handled. All messed up. Ill stick with my Glocks.

It's a training issue. I've owned Kimbers, Springfields, and others, and my experience is the exact opposite of yours. The two and a half reasons I don't carry 1911s any longer are: (1) capacity; (2) weight; and (3) caliber. Caliber is the "half a reason", because I know you can get 9mm 1911s, but most of them are .45s, and the two that I still have in my safe are utterly reliable. One of the two that I have is the one that my own father staked his life on in the Pacific in 1945.

But, the 1911 is a precision instrument, and if your technique is not good, it will betray you. My youngest brother has a 1971 Jaguar XK-E V12, one of Great Britain's supercars of that era. It is fast as heck, and an absolute thrill to drive; and it feels like there is a direct connection between the steering wheel and the tires' contact patch with the pavement. Some would say that it feels rough, but it is actually telling you everything that is happening at the pavement level. That's what supercars do. If you are even slightly ham-handed with the steering, you'll be constantly fighting the car - because it will go exactly where you point it. There is zero slop there. if you're not precise with your inputs, you will be rewarded with imprecise reactions from the car. Everything about that car is like that. Press on the gas pedal, and there's no delay between the pressure on the pedal and the acceleration. Ditto with the brakes. But, drive it like it was designed to be driven, with skill and commitment, and you'll find yourself enjoying one of the all time great driving experiences.

That's what a 1911 is like. There is no room for slop. Your technique must be good. It is my experience that 1911s can be made to jam by limp-wristing them. But if you don't, they'll run like a top.

Now, all of that said, I too carry Glocks. But like I said above, it's a matter of weight, capacity, and caliber. I like Glocks. I didn't used to so much. I always thought they are good guns, but I just didn't think they were for me, and I carried 1911s. The first polymer-framed non-1911 pistol purchased for a carry gun was a HK USP Compact .40. The reason I bought it - other than wanting to try .40 S&W (turns out I don't like that caliber myself) - was that the grip angle was similar to the 1911, it had higher capacity, AND it could be carried cocked and locked in single action. (I could also carry it hammer down with a double action.) I eventually sold that pistol, but I continued to carry 1911s. My next foray into polymer framed pistols was a M&P45 - another gun that emulates the 1911 grip angle. It was lighter than a 1911, but even the full-sized M&P only carried 10 rounds in a mag, compared to an 8 round 1911 magazine. It was accurate and soft-shooting, but it wasn't enough of an advantage over a 1911. I still have the M&P, but I don't carry it anymore. My next foray into polymer-framed .45s was a XD(m)-45 Compact 3.8. I still have that one too. It's primary magazine holds 9+1, but the backup mag is a 13 rounder. It's a great gun - the softest shooting .45 I own, and it is VERY accurate. But...it has a massive slide, and fully loaded, it weighs a ton. I eventually bought a Glock 17, which fully loaded with two spare magazines, weighed less than the XD(m) fully loaded with two spare mags........and offered 58 total rounds (all three mags have +2 extensions on them) compared to the XD(m)'s 36 total rounds.

I started EDCing the G17, and that led to buying the G43 for deep concealment, then the G19, and most recently, a G26. So obviously, I like Glocks, and I do stake my life on them. But my choice of a Glock over a 1911 has nothing to do with whether or not I think the 1911 is unreliable. It is not. It served our military well for 74 years. Millions of people around the world have relied on it to protect themselves and their families. It has as good of a track record as any pistol ever made. The reason I carry Glocks isn't because I think they are better pistols - they're not. It's because they make sense for my particular carry needs. But they don't make sense for everyone's carry needs. In fact, 1911s make perfect sense for the carry needs of more than one of my friends - who are indeed very experienced pistoleros. You could even further say that I don't carry one because, in part, I'm not as experienced a pistolero as they are.
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby ScottDLS » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:21 pm

Only special operators should be allowed to carry Glocks. They are not for mere LEO's and definitely not for the "masses". In the "Teams" only the best of the best were allowed to carry Glocks, the rest had to settle for SIGs. :coolgleamA:

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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby Lena » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:24 pm

I also have several 100% reliable 1911's and carried them for years and would do again if need to, when asked on a bet your life on it carry weapon I always say SIG or GLOCK and would say same today.
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby patterson » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:06 am

Lena wrote:I also have several 100% reliable 1911's and carried them for years and would do again if need to, when asked on a bet your life on it carry weapon I always say SIG or GLOCK and would say same today.

Totally agree on Sig

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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby Liberty » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:47 am

What I find frustrating is the fading away of the traditional hammered SA/DA handgun. Thereseem to be fewer and fewer of them on the market, with DA being more common. I find the 1911 is just too finicky to trust especially the commander and subcompact models. Running enough defense ammo to build confidence enough to trust these things is can be an expensive proposition. I will likely buy a nice 1911 someday, but It would likely never be carried as a primary defense gun.

Glocks, to me, just don't have that margin of error for safety. An instinctive grab for a falling gun, or the quick wandering hands of a toddler are risks that concern me. I like the idea of a mechanical safety. Perhaps a holster with good retention would relieve me of some of my concerns. I am also uncomfortable with the concept of pulling the trigger to disassemble the gun.

Glocks and 1911s aren't bad guns, They just aren't the best choice for everyone.
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:37 pm

Lena wrote:I also have several 100% reliable 1911's and carried them for years and would do again if need to, when asked on a bet your life on it carry weapon I always say SIG or GLOCK and would say same today.


I must just be lucky with 1911's. I have owned 9 different 1911's from Colt, Dan Wesson, Nighthawk, Les Baer, CZ, and Magnum Research. Now I realize that none of these are "low end" manufacturers. But, my 1911's have been every bit as reliable as my non-1911's. In that second category are guns from Glock, Sig, and CZ, among others.

Given no other parameters (number of BG's, range, etc), I would "bet my life" on a 1911, which I do, every day. That said, for the specific situation of a home invasion, I "bet my life" on a Sig, because that gun is more accurate, and has a greater capacity, even though it is too big to carry.

Now if you told me I had a $500 budget, I would get a Glock (Gen 3) as opposed to any 1911 that I could buy in that price range.
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby patterson » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:51 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Lena wrote:I also have several 100% reliable 1911's and carried them for years and would do again if need to, when asked on a bet your life on it carry weapon I always say SIG or GLOCK and would say same today.


I must just be lucky with 1911's. I have owned 9 different 1911's from Colt, Dan Wesson, Nighthawk, Les Baer, CZ, and Magnum Research. Now I realize that none of these are "low end" manufacturers. But, my 1911's have been every bit as reliable as my non-1911's. In that second category are guns from Glock, Sig, and CZ, among others.

Given no other parameters (number of BG's, range, etc), I would "bet my life" on a 1911, which I do, every day. That said, for the specific situation of a home invasion, I "bet my life" on a Sig, because that gun is more accurate, and has a greater capacity, even though it is too big to carry.

Now if you told me I had a $500 budget, I would get a Glock (Gen 3) as opposed to any 1911 that I could buy in that price range.

I have carried 1911s in the past and wouldn't hesitate carrying one again and I agree on the accuracy of Sigs


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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby Swoops1 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:39 pm

cmgee67 wrote:And friend of mine used to work for Dallas PD and he said when he was there 1911's were banned because two officers he knew at Dallas were in a gun fight and both got killed because their 1911's jammed. I' don't remember if it was two separate gun fights or the same one but nevertheless ,That's why I don't, I won't, and I will never trust a 1911 to save my life. Every 1911 I've used or handled have all jammed or malfunctioned in one way or another. Ruger, kimber, colt, Springfield, and a couple others. I have handled. All messed up. Ill stick with my Glocks.


On the opposite end of the spectrum I own 3 Colt 1911s, a A1 .45, a Commander .45 and a .38 Super out of several thousand rounds very few malfunctions never a "Jam" that couldn't be quickly rectified. I shot some pretty well worn ones in the military still shot you just didn't know where it was going to shoot once it got heated up. To each their own.


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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:08 pm

I find there is a lot of hype about the reliability or non-reliability of particular guns. I have had some level of reliability issues with just about every gun I own, including my Glock's. I even have had "reliability" issues with a revolver, specifically light primer strikes. For some reason, a lot of people want to generalize that Glocks are indestructible, or that revolvers always go bang, or that 1911's are finicky about ammo and need to be operating room clean to work. It simply isn't true.

The fact is that yes, some guns are more reliable than others, but just about every modern gun will be extremely reliable if it is properly maintained and kept reasonably clean. And regardless of gun, you need to practice and know your manual of arms to include malfunction drills. This is one area where a revolver is clearly superior IMHO, since the malfunction drill pretty much consists of "pull the trigger again".
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby nightmare69 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:11 pm

I have yet to acquire the elite status of operator so I carry a Sig p226. Maybe one day...
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby RossA » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:59 pm

As a 1911/HiPower carrier, I laugh at the idea that Glocks have short trigger pulls.
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