Blind student

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infoman
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Blind student

Postby infoman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:09 pm

We had a guy ask if he could teach & give LTC class to a person who was 100% completely blind? He said the guy could see earlier in his life & could shoot before he was blind, but now is totally completely blind. He said he would just tell the student the height & direction of targets. Can a blind student take the LTC class? (both classroom & proficiency)


montgomery
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Re: Blind student

Postby montgomery » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:18 pm

I shot my qualification with my eyes closed as a bet with the instructor who said I could not get a perfect score with a 45. If being effectively blind is ok, being actually blind should be too.

As a LTC instructor myself, I have not encountered someone that was even legally blind, but I do not recall vision requirements as a condition to get a LTC. They either pass the shooting qualification or they don't.


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infoman
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Re: Blind student

Postby infoman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:29 pm

If they are totally blind 100%, you would need to tell them direction of target, height/width of target, etc?

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Flightmare
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Re: Blind student

Postby Flightmare » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:31 pm

montgomery wrote:I shot my qualification with my eyes closed as a bet with the instructor who said I could not get a perfect score with a 45. If being effectively blind is ok, being actually blind should be too.

As a LTC instructor myself, I have not encountered someone that was even legally blind, but I do not recall vision requirements as a condition to get a LTC. They either pass the shooting qualification or they don't.


A buddy of mine is legally blind and took his test with me. Passed with no issues. He can see, just not very well.
Deplorable lunatic since 2016


NNT
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Re: Blind student

Postby NNT » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:31 pm

Are there provisions for an oral exam instead of written?

Personally the only time I would be comfortable with a blind person shooting in self defense is if the bad guy was in physical contact with him. Just like I, as a person with sight, would not shoot in the dark. Isn’t one of the safety montras ‘know your target and what lies beyond your target’? All due admiration for blind people being independent, but they can’t see me across the street from their target. In their own home maybe a different story, but bullets do go through wall, right?


Abraham
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Re: Blind student

Postby Abraham » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:32 pm

Wow, this is a dilemma.

A completely blind person probably needs more protection than the sighted, as evil people will take advantage of anyone who they deem 'prey', but of course we're all concerned about shooting an innocent or making a tragic error with working eyes...man, I don't know what to suggest....


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infoman
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Re: Blind student

Postby infoman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:37 pm

One thing too is our license is for carrying in public. You don’t need an LTC to carry in your home, vehicle, boat..

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Vol Texan
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Re: Blind student

Postby Vol Texan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:39 pm

This topic came up a few years ago. Some good reading here: /viewtopic.php?f=18&t=51999
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infoman
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Re: Blind student

Postby infoman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:54 pm

Pretty good read, but sadly no definite yes or no. I guess the question is if telling the student the direction, height, distance, width, etc is too much help or not. I also read many comments on previous thread about the issue of seeing 3rd party persons in the background if shooting at a target in public. It’s an interesting topic. I’ve always been told that a 100% total blind person couldn’t take the LTC course, but who knows for sure.


montgomery
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Re: Blind student

Postby montgomery » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:57 pm

NNT wrote:Are there provisions for an oral exam instead of written?

Personally the only time I would be comfortable with a blind person shooting in self defense is if the bad guy was in physical contact with him. Just like I, as a person with sight, would not shoot in the dark. Isn’t one of the safety montras ‘know your target and what lies beyond your target’? All due admiration for blind people being independent, but they can’t see me across the street from their target. In their own home maybe a different story, but bullets do go through wall, right?


Per page 22 of the LTC Course Outline published by the Texas Department of Public Safety, "An oral examination may be administered to a student who may have difficulties in completing a written format."


Tex1961
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Re: Blind student

Postby Tex1961 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:24 pm

Here is a link to a post just like this made several years ago.

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=51999

But I copied one particular post from that below.. I don't know if this user still comes to the forum or not, but thought it worth posting.

e: Blind CHL applicant
by mikeloc » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:08 pm

In 1996 we were told by Lt. Dan Walker that a blind person would not be issued a CHL. He told our instructor class that DPS had been challenged on that position and he confirmed that a blind person would not be issued a license.

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Keith B
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Re: Blind student

Postby Keith B » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:47 pm

Tex1961 wrote:Here is a link to a post just like this made several years ago.

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=51999

But I copied one particular post from that below.. I don't know if this user still comes to the forum or not, but thought it worth posting.

e: Blind CHL applicant
by mikeloc » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:08 pm

In 1996 we were told by Lt. Dan Walker that a blind person would not be issued a CHL. He told our instructor class that DPS had been challenged on that position and he confirmed that a blind person would not be issued a license.

Mike Lochabay


I would check with DPS legal and see what they say. Also, 100% blind may mean they are legally blind, but still have some vision such as shapes and contrasts, so they may be able to discern the silhouette outline and would in turn be able to see an attacker.
Keith
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infoman
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Re: Blind student

Postby infoman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:51 pm

We were told this guy is totally blind- only sees black. No shapes, colors, etc.


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Re: Blind student

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:28 pm

Tex1961 wrote:Here is a link to a post just like this made several years ago.

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=51999

But I copied one particular post from that below.. I don't know if this user still comes to the forum or not, but thought it worth posting.

e: Blind CHL applicant
by mikeloc » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:08 pm

In 1996 we were told by Lt. Dan Walker that a blind person would not be issued a CHL. He told our instructor class that DPS had been challenged on that position and he confirmed that a blind person would not be issued a license.

Mike Lochabay


This seems like a discrimination lawsuit just waiting to be filed, assuming of course that the person can meet all of the stated requirements for the license.

Which of course begs the question of whether we should have formal rules in place requiring an eye exam as part of the LTC test (like we do for driver's licenses).
Ding dong, the witch is dead


rotor
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Re: Blind student

Postby rotor » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:54 pm

Since there is no government code requiring visual acuity I guess it was assumed by the legislators that a blind person couldn't pass the exams.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... tm#411.172

I guess if that person did pass the written and shooting exams they could get a LTC. Perhaps 30.06/07 signs and red 51% would need braille as well. I could see a circumstance where a blind person might want to have the ability to carry for self defense. I could see that carrying a knife would be a self defense tool for a blind person as well. I don't see how under the current regs a LTC could be denied if someone passed the exams.


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