Gun Buster Signs

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Pawpaw
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#31

Post by Pawpaw » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:44 pm

Abraham wrote:rtschl,

That's interesting, but I'm puzzled about the mechanics of someone printing (presumably) hand size cards with all the 30.06 wording and how they go about distributing them?

If I enter your business as a concealed carrier, am I supposed to grab a card, like folks who pick a number as the next customer in line when his number is called for service, or are they in a case outside the business and I'm encouraged to pick one up and read it before I go any further into the store....what the heck?

This approach sounds like nuttiness on a grand order or am I simply over looking everyone else but me knows the answer to...?
There was a thread some time ago about a movie theater that had 30.06 printed on the back of the receipt.

Also, if you went somewhere (doctor's office?) that had a sign-in sheet with 30.06 printed on it, you've received notice... and signed to say so.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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Abraham
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#32

Post by Abraham » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:49 pm

Pawpaw,

I'd be tempted to ignore this rather 'stealth' notice.

Conceal em if ya got em...


twomillenium
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#33

Post by twomillenium » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:11 pm

The .06 or .07 sign that was blocked as you walked in, written notice on a sign in sheet (who reads all that writing, besides I am not signing I am letting them know I am here) ahhhh but a card that has the exact language as prescribed and given directly to a person or oral communication directly to a person (not a announcement on a intercom, who pays attention to those) has very little defense when the communication is direct to the person.
My take on the card or document is something that is directly given to each individual, the expected voluntary reading of something not directly given is why the sign on the entrances are to be 1" minimum block letters appearing in a conspicuous location in contrasting colors in English and Spanish.
Written communication with is covered by public notice or direct notice (card given) or oral communication (which can simply be " we don't allow gun in here so leave") is all covered in this section of the law.
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA pistol instructor, RSO, NRA Endowment Life , TSRA, Glock enthusiast (tho I have others)
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to add it to a fruit salad.

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TreyHouston
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#34

Post by TreyHouston » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:45 pm

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?…

REMEMBER!!!!! If you have 16 items in the 15 items and under lane, you are committing TRESPASSING, and could “take the ride” if the manager chooses to call the cops. Same with the Take One Sample sign- take two? Jail. Choose not to take one? Owner is telling you to take one, or you can leave, because you are trespassing.

And WHY is “it’s different” a valid argument if a sign is a sign??

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?…
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#35

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:52 pm

Pawpaw wrote:
Abraham wrote:rtschl,

That's interesting, but I'm puzzled about the mechanics of someone printing (presumably) hand size cards with all the 30.06 wording and how they go about distributing them?

If I enter your business as a concealed carrier, am I supposed to grab a card, like folks who pick a number as the next customer in line when his number is called for service, or are they in a case outside the business and I'm encouraged to pick one up and read it before I go any further into the store....what the heck?

This approach sounds like nuttiness on a grand order or am I simply over looking everyone else but me knows the answer to...?
There was a thread some time ago about a movie theater that had 30.06 printed on the back of the receipt.

Also, if you went somewhere (doctor's office?) that had a sign-in sheet with 30.06 printed on it, you've received notice... and signed to say so.
Just playing Devil's advocate, but a 30.06 wording printed on the receipt would probably be valid notice for the person getting the receipt, assuming they actually took it and didn't just grab the tickets and leave the receipt. Everyone else in that party would not have received notice of any type, of course. Similar for notice printed on tickets. Whoever holds the tickets (usually only one person for my family, and usually not me) gets the notice, not so much for anyone else.

Notice on a sign-in sheet? That would be more interesting.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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Flightmare
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#36

Post by Flightmare » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:01 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:
Abraham wrote:rtschl,

That's interesting, but I'm puzzled about the mechanics of someone printing (presumably) hand size cards with all the 30.06 wording and how they go about distributing them?

If I enter your business as a concealed carrier, am I supposed to grab a card, like folks who pick a number as the next customer in line when his number is called for service, or are they in a case outside the business and I'm encouraged to pick one up and read it before I go any further into the store....what the heck?

This approach sounds like nuttiness on a grand order or am I simply over looking everyone else but me knows the answer to...?
There was a thread some time ago about a movie theater that had 30.06 printed on the back of the receipt.

Also, if you went somewhere (doctor's office?) that had a sign-in sheet with 30.06 printed on it, you've received notice... and signed to say so.
Just playing Devil's advocate, but a 30.06 wording printed on the receipt would probably be valid notice for the person getting the receipt, assuming they actually took it and didn't just grab the tickets and leave the receipt. Everyone else in that party would not have received notice of any type, of course. Similar for notice printed on tickets. Whoever holds the tickets (usually only one person for my family, and usually not me) gets the notice, not so much for anyone else.

Notice on a sign-in sheet? That would be more interesting.
What if one declined the receipt? There are many places I go where I simply ask them to throw it away and I never take possession of it.
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Pawpaw
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#37

Post by Pawpaw » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:55 pm

I believe the receipt is your ticket at those theaters.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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Soccerdad1995
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#38

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:00 pm

Pawpaw wrote:I believe the receipt is your ticket at those theaters.
Ah, so the person receiving the tickets / receipts would receive notice. That's usually my teenage daughter when we go out to the movies.
Ding dong, the witch is dead


twomillenium
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#39

Post by twomillenium » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:04 pm

Pawpaw wrote:I believe the receipt is your ticket at those theaters.
Exactly, the receipt is to allow you in, not to notify you of policy. I think it would be successfully argued that you were not EFFECTIVELY notified. Just as the sign in sheet is to register the patients presence, not to notify them of policies. INAL, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA pistol instructor, RSO, NRA Endowment Life , TSRA, Glock enthusiast (tho I have others)
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to add it to a fruit salad.

You will never know another me, this could be good or not so good, but it is still true.


Abraham
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#40

Post by Abraham » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:42 pm

O.K., then why the need for 30.06 /07 signs with specificity in both English and Spanish in 1" size letters?

Or, is that just boiler plate that can be ignored if the business decides to notify with wee size hand outs at their discretion?

Or can they tell you're a CCer and hey man, you can't come in here with a gun?

C'mon, either there's a commonly understood law (proper signage) or every business can conduct their own approach?

Which is it?


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rotor
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#41

Post by rotor » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:30 pm

Abraham wrote:O.K., then why the need for 30.06 /07 signs with specificity in both English and Spanish in 1" size letters?

Or, is that just boiler plate that can be ignored if the business decides to notify with wee size hand outs at their discretion?

Or can they tell you're a CCer and hey man, you can't come in here with a gun?

C'mon, either there's a commonly understood law (proper signage) or every business can conduct their own approach?

Which is it?
30.06/07 legislation specifically says the business can give you a card (properly worded) that bars carrying without putting a sign at the entrance. I guess it can be used as an alternative to signs at the entrance and may even have the potential for discrimination. Let's say they only give the 30.07 to old white men but not young hispanics carrying openly. Complain to the legislators if you don't like it but it is written into the law. Not the old white man part but the methods of notifying are very clearly written into 06/07.


twomillenium
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#42

Post by twomillenium » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:36 pm

Abraham wrote:O.K., then why the need for 30.06 /07 signs with specificity in both English and Spanish in 1" size letters?

Or, is that just boiler plate that can be ignored if the business decides to notify with wee size hand outs at their discretion?

Or can they tell you're a CCer and hey man, you can't come in here with a gun?

C'mon, either there's a commonly understood law (proper signage) or every business can conduct their own approach?

Which is it?
Their business, their choice as long as they follow the law. That is the way it should be.
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA pistol instructor, RSO, NRA Endowment Life , TSRA, Glock enthusiast (tho I have others)
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to add it to a fruit salad.

You will never know another me, this could be good or not so good, but it is still true.


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#43

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:47 pm

rotor wrote:
Abraham wrote:O.K., then why the need for 30.06 /07 signs with specificity in both English and Spanish in 1" size letters?

Or, is that just boiler plate that can be ignored if the business decides to notify with wee size hand outs at their discretion?

Or can they tell you're a CCer and hey man, you can't come in here with a gun?

C'mon, either there's a commonly understood law (proper signage) or every business can conduct their own approach?

Which is it?
30.06/07 legislation specifically says the business can give you a card (properly worded) that bars carrying without putting a sign at the entrance. I guess it can be used as an alternative to signs at the entrance and may even have the potential for discrimination. Let's say they only give the 30.07 to old white men but not young hispanics carrying openly. Complain to the legislators if you don't like it but it is written into the law. Not the old white man part but the methods of notifying are very clearly written into 06/07.
I have yet to encounter a business that has taken the "card" approach. This might be due to the fact that such an approach opens up a lot of gray area, and would be nigh impossible to implement with 100% certainty. Do you station someone at all doors to ensure that every person gets a card? What do you do about the people who will decline and just keep walking? Do you have your "card person" chase them into the store, thereby leaving their post and not insuring that other visitors get cards? Or maybe they lock the doors while they are doing the chasing?

To me, this seems like a very difficult way to mandate that your customers conform to your beliefs about their personal behavior that impacts no one else. It would be simpler and better, IMHO to post the correct signage. And it would be even better to just stop worrying about the actions of complete strangers that have no impact whatsoever on you or anyone else.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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Flightmare
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#44

Post by Flightmare » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:56 pm

The only instance I've heard of cards being issued was in the case of open carry, and politely asking people to cover up. I personally see that as a more discrete way to inform people without posting the big ugly signs. As for the 30.06 notification; unless a person is negligent in concealing themselves, I don't see where a person handing out a card would ever come into play.
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rotor
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Re: Gun Buster Signs

#45

Post by rotor » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:02 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
rotor wrote:
Abraham wrote:O.K., then why the need for 30.06 /07 signs with specificity in both English and Spanish in 1" size letters?

Or, is that just boiler plate that can be ignored if the business decides to notify with wee size hand outs at their discretion?

Or can they tell you're a CCer and hey man, you can't come in here with a gun?

C'mon, either there's a commonly understood law (proper signage) or every business can conduct their own approach?

Which is it?
30.06/07 legislation specifically says the business can give you a card (properly worded) that bars carrying without putting a sign at the entrance. I guess it can be used as an alternative to signs at the entrance and may even have the potential for discrimination. Let's say they only give the 30.07 to old white men but not young hispanics carrying openly. Complain to the legislators if you don't like it but it is written into the law. Not the old white man part but the methods of notifying are very clearly written into 06/07.
I have yet to encounter a business that has taken the "card" approach. This might be due to the fact that such an approach opens up a lot of gray area, and would be nigh impossible to implement with 100% certainty. Do you station someone at all doors to ensure that every person gets a card? What do you do about the people who will decline and just keep walking? Do you have your "card person" chase them into the store, thereby leaving their post and not insuring that other visitors get cards? Or maybe they lock the doors while they are doing the chasing?

To me, this seems like a very difficult way to mandate that your customers conform to your beliefs about their personal behavior that impacts no one else. It would be simpler and better, IMHO to post the correct signage. And it would be even better to just stop worrying about the actions of complete strangers that have no impact whatsoever on you or anyone else.
I have never been anywhere either that handed out such cards. Someone posted though that their church doesn't post 06/07 but if someone open carry's they hand them an 07 card. If someone doesn't follow they are trespassing and reason to call the police. Look, as far as I am concerned I think that a LTC holder should be able to carry everywhere but nobody listens to me. No exemptions. Carry everywhere. The reason is simple, I can be attacked anywhere. Standing in line to vote does not give me immunity to a gunshot.
As an aside, when I was in the service and my hair was getting a little long my CO would slip a note into my hand that said "haircut".

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