KS:Witchta man dies after fake "Swatting" call

Reports of actual crimes and investigations, not hypothetical situations.

Moderators: Keith B, carlson1


K.Mooneyham
Senior Member
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:27 pm
Location: Vernon, Texas

Re: KS:Witchta man dies after fake "Swatting" call

Postby K.Mooneyham » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:10 pm

When we received training on accidents, we were taught the concept of a chain of events. Breaking any link in the chain will prevent the accident from occurring. I really cannot see how this is any different, besides it not being an accident, which makes it worse. The entire incident would never have occurred, and the deceased would still be alive, had the call never been placed. It is the first link in the chain of events.


MechAg94
Senior Member
Posts: 1543
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:28 pm

Re: KS:Witchta man dies after fake "Swatting" call

Postby MechAg94 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:34 pm

K.Mooneyham wrote:When we received training on accidents, we were taught the concept of a chain of events. Breaking any link in the chain will prevent the accident from occurring. I really cannot see how this is any different, besides it not being an accident, which makes it worse. The entire incident would never have occurred, and the deceased would still be alive, had the call never been placed. It is the first link in the chain of events.

Yep. There were probably several errors that all came together. With injuries in industrial settings, that is the case as well.

I think in this case there was only one shot. It would be interesting if we could actually get candid commentary from the officers involved. I would settle for at least seeing all the video that police have available so we could get a better picture of events. There were some things said about the way the deceased was behaving that I would like to see for myself.


ninjabread
Senior Member
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: KS:Witchta man dies after fake "Swatting" call

Postby ninjabread » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:34 pm

K.Mooneyham wrote:When we received training on accidents, we were taught the concept of a chain of events. Breaking any link in the chain will prevent the accident from occurring. I really cannot see how this is any different, besides it not being an accident, which makes it worse. The entire incident would never have occurred, and the deceased would still be alive, had the call never been placed. It is the first link in the chain of events.

It's the first link but every link is to blame. Also there are many prank calls that don't end with an innocent person shot by police and there are many innocent people shot by police that didn't start with a prank call. I'm in favor of prosecuting the prank caller but we also need to prosecute the trigger pullers if it's going to be more than smoke and mirrors.
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


K.Mooneyham
Senior Member
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:27 pm
Location: Vernon, Texas

Re: KS:Witchta man dies after fake "Swatting" call

Postby K.Mooneyham » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:38 am

ninjabread wrote:
K.Mooneyham wrote:When we received training on accidents, we were taught the concept of a chain of events. Breaking any link in the chain will prevent the accident from occurring. I really cannot see how this is any different, besides it not being an accident, which makes it worse. The entire incident would never have occurred, and the deceased would still be alive, had the call never been placed. It is the first link in the chain of events.

It's the first link but every link is to blame. Also there are many prank calls that don't end with an innocent person shot by police and there are many innocent people shot by police that didn't start with a prank call. I'm in favor of prosecuting the prank caller but we also need to prosecute the trigger pullers if it's going to be more than smoke and mirrors.


I'm sorry I just don't consider that in the same league with a prank call. An admittedly cheesy version of a prank call is the old "Hello, is your refrigerator running? <pause> Well, you better go catch it!", and then hanging up. Prank denotes all-in-good-fun, even if annoying. There is nothing in good fun about sending armed people out after someone.


Rob72
Junior Member
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:08 am
Location: Gulf Coast

Re: KS:Witchta man dies after fake "Swatting" call

Postby Rob72 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:15 pm

BBYC wrote:
Rob72 wrote:
BBYC wrote:
MechAg94 wrote:Plus, if they don't prosecute the officer for the death, can you really punish the SWAT'er as an accessory to murder?

:iagree: if the shooter is not guilty then the caller is not guilty.


False.

Sorry but I don't follow you. If there's no murder than how can they be an accessory to murder?


IANL, however, having been around the courthouse more than once:

The actions of the "swatter" resulted in the call-out of a tactical team, and this resulted in a death. The argument for the Defense is that the caller did not "intend" for a death to result. Supporting that is the Defense's job. However, his actions were no different than someone walking up to the victim, dropping 1 round in a revolver cylinder, giving it a spin, and pulling the trigger in the victim's face. That's aggravated manslaughter, by definition(gross and/or malicious carelessness, resulting a in a death). If there is texting/discussion about, "how cool it would be if the dude gets shot!!!", that's murder.

The legal discussion, in the Prosecutor's office, is whether the guy that called the swatter can be proven to have direct intent to cause harm (i.e, he's guilty of murder), in which case the swatter is an accessory. Alternatively, if the caller has not participated in a swatting before, and there is no evidence indicating something other than maybe he hoped the cops would knock on the victim's door and bother him, the swatter, based on his previous activities, could be tried for murder.

It really depends on whether or not the Prosecutor wishes to send a message. It would be nice if the FBI would pick this up as a Federal prosecution, but it wasn't a 12 y/o girl that got shot, so...


ninjabread
Senior Member
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: KS:Witchta man dies after fake "Swatting" call

Postby ninjabread » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:39 pm

Rob72 wrote:It really depends on whether or not the Prosecutor wishes to send a message. It would be nice if the FBI would pick this up as a Federal prosecution, but it wasn't a 12 y/o girl that got shot, so...

That sounds great as long as the person who pulled a real trigger on a real gun and killed a real man is co-defendant with the online gamer.
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


MechAg94
Senior Member
Posts: 1543
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:28 pm

Re: KS:Witchta man dies after fake "Swatting" call

Postby MechAg94 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:27 pm

IMO, there are two parts this incident. The first is the fake 911 call. It is easy to get caught up on only this part. However, the SWAT team is not a weapon. We should not have to accept that if the SWAT team shows up someone has to die.

IMO, there should be an investigation into exactly what was happening at the scene of the shot?
What the victim was doing?
Why did the officer made the shot? I heard it said he moved his hands toward his waste. Should they shoot if they don't even see a weapon?
Was that shot really necessary at the time?
Would different tactics have made that shot unnecessary (if it was necessary in the first place)?
At what other points after the fake 911 call was made could the officers have realized that it was fake and backed off?
Lastly, should a 911 call be reason enough for a SWAT team to charge in ready kill someone?

That last is a big question to me. If group of men break in my house and I hide in the closet and call 911, I am going to stay on the phone and in contact. I am not going to just call up 911 and then hang up. In addition, the cops should be able to take note of the scene as they approach to confirm the situation on the ground is what has been reported. I think when it comes down to it, the first job of police is not to charge in and save the day much as we would like that to happen.


SewTexas
Senior Member
Posts: 2981
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:52 pm
Location: San Antonio area

Re: KS:Witchta man dies after fake "Swatting" call

Postby SewTexas » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:03 pm

MechAg94 wrote:IMO, there are two parts this incident. The first is the fake 911 call. It is easy to get caught up on only this part. However, the SWAT team is not a weapon. We should not have to accept that if the SWAT team shows up someone has to die.

IMO, there should be an investigation into exactly what was happening at the scene of the shot?
What the victim was doing?
Why did the officer made the shot? I heard it said he moved his hands toward his waste. Should they shoot if they don't even see a weapon?
Was that shot really necessary at the time?
Would different tactics have made that shot unnecessary (if it was necessary in the first place)?
At what other points after the fake 911 call was made could the officers have realized that it was fake and backed off?
Lastly, should a 911 call be reason enough for a SWAT team to charge in ready kill someone?

That last is a big question to me. If group of men break in my house and I hide in the closet and call 911, I am going to stay on the phone and in contact. I am not going to just call up 911 and then hang up. In addition, the cops should be able to take note of the scene as they approach to confirm the situation on the ground is what has been reported. I think when it comes down to it, the first job of police is not to charge in and save the day much as we would like that to happen.


this last bit. People have got to start using their brains again! cops, teachers, everyone. I realize thinking is "so 1990" but I thought we were living in a time that "everything old is new again".....
~Tracy
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir


Return to “The Crime Blotter”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests