TexasCHLforum.com

jmra wrote:

Ruark wrote:How many of you would open carry at a mall? There have been a number of times when I've CC under a light jacket, then got to the mall shopping with my wife about noon or so. By then the weather had heated up and I wanted to take the jacket off and leave it in the car.

I would never consider OC at a mall. If it got warmer I'd take off the jacket and pull my shirt over my firearm. OC in a mall is almost a guarantee call to 911 of MWAG.

So? You're completely legal. All a cop can do is ask to see your CHL. Besides, I'm dressed neatly (slacks, short sleeve button down dress shirt) and my shirt is tucked in; I don't want to pull it out just for that reason, especially when I'm not doing anything wrong.

I think for OC to really work, we need to not be intimidated. MDA would have a good belly laugh at how we're "so scared of them."

How many of you would open carry at a mall? There have been a number of times when I've CC under a light jacket, then got to the mall shopping with my wife about noon or so. By then the weather had heated up and I wanted to take the jacket off and leave it in the car.

TXBO wrote: I feel more comfortable concealing in areas that I can't control my personal space with large numbers of people.

Would you open carry at the mall?

TXBO wrote: I'm certainly not the voice of all CHL holders in Texas but inner-city is not a place that I would open carry with any frequency or duration.

Why not, specifically?

LabRat wrote:
The 4th amendment was not discarded when the Dutton amendment was removed; hopefully, Police Department legal counsel will remind officers of that very important fact.

That "settled" 4th amendment law has been in effect for quite some time. Do a YouTube search for "open carry harrassment" (without quotes) and watch some of the videos. Granted, most of these people were carrying ARs, but they were doing so peacefully, and completely legally - just as legally as we will open carry handguns after 1/1/16. The 4th amendment sure didn't stop them. If LEOs are so aware of being blocked by the 4th amendment regardless, then why were so many of them (including chiefs) hysterically against the amendment to HB910?

FWIW, it was in effect during the Grisham incident, too.

Also, I think it general it's a little futile to start arguing with an LEO about constitutional law. That's "not where their heads are at," so to speak.

I realize and agree that the vast majority of LEOs are decent people. But not all of them. There's also the matter of departmental policy regarding OC. I would love to be a fly on the wall when Acevedo talks to his officers about it.

I appreciate the input here, and it's a viable topic of conversation, but I'm hoping we can get back to the original question: in the case of investigatory stops without PC, what complaint options are available besides a $350-an-hour lawyer?

timtheteacher wrote:

Ruark wrote:I think it goes without saying that some LEOs are going to perform excessively invasive investigatory stops. Say, instead of just glancing at your CHL and saying "have a nice day," the LEO takes your gun ("for your own safety, sir"), goes an sits in his car for 10 minutes checking for warrants, several other LEOs arrive for backup, your gun is unloaded and the shells scattered on the ground, a crowd gathers, etc. All this has happened to people lawfully carrying in other states.

Why are you assuming the "worst case scenario?" I think that something as you have described will in all honesty be few and far between. Departments will brief their officers as this is a very big change. If you present a "combative" attitude it could be reflected in how the officer approaches you. Just my 2 cents...

By no means am I espousing a "combative" attitude. Please don't make that assumption just because I state a dislike for a "papers, please" LEO stop. I am always polite and cooperative with LEOs.

Abraham wrote:Is this in regard to O.C. and possible LEO harassment or am I off base?

Yes, exactly.

I think it goes without saying that some LEOs are going to perform excessively invasive investigatory stops. Say, instead of just glancing at your CHL and saying "have a nice day," the LEO takes your gun ("for your own safety, sir"), goes an sits in his car for 10 minutes checking for warrants, several other LEOs arrive for backup, your gun is unloaded and the shells scattered on the ground, a crowd gathers, etc. All this has happened to people lawfully carrying in other states.

We've often read on here that in such a case, a complaint should be filed, maybe a lawsuit. But that's easier said than done; there are many of us who can't afford to pay some lawyer $350 an hour to sue a city government. What other avenues of action could be taken, given that nobody wants to take the case pro bono? It might be useful to know just what the options are.