Search found 4 matches

by cyphertext
Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:35 pm
Forum: Rifles & Shotguns
Topic: Home Defense Weapon
Replies: 42
Views: 4003

Re: Home Defense Weapon

ScottDLS wrote:
cyphertext wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
Nuts wrote:.223/5.56 has less of a chance of over penetration then 9mm.
I seriously doubt that... There's not nearly enough information in the hypothetical to make that blanket statement. As a rule, all else being equal (which it never is) the bullet with the greater velocity and less front facing surface area, will penetrate more of the same material, than the slower fatter one.

We've all seen the Youtube with the 9mm going through 5 sheets of drywall while the 5.56 doesn't. It's a cool video, but has effectively no application to real life. To get the best answer, you have to consider the material, the angle, the distance, the number of different materials, bullet type (FMJ, HP, JHP, lead, etc.), distance, and so on and so on. Just because somebody got a 55gr FMJ 5.56 round to tumble in a few sheets of drywall doesn't mean it's going to do the same thing in your house.

If I'm faced with a bad guy in my bedroom, and have a choice between my 9mm SIG and my 16" AR-15 carbine, I'm taking the pistol. If the guy's shooting at me from down the street, I'll take my rifle. No way I'm popping off a 5.56 in my house thinking it has less chance of hitting the kids' in their bedroom than a 9mm.

Experts in LE and military would disagree with you. Of course it comes down to bullet choice. I doubt that folks who are addressing penetration with 5.56mm are advocating using xm855 as the ammo of choice. But even the 55gr fmj has shown to lose velocity and break apart when impacting common household building materials such as sheetrock.
So the 5.56 tumbles in some materials...including people... Pick 5 common household materials and shoot with a 55gr FMJ and a 115gr 9mm. Decide which gun you want to hide behind all the materials from... I'll take the 9mm to be shot at with, especially out of a pistol, but even a carbine. Obviously a hypothetical...I'll pick neither in real life.

I've shot .223/5.56 out of rifles and 9mm out of pistols and machine pistols against all kinds of materials and the 5.56 almost always punches through. My apocryphal examples are Mini14 at a steel soda syrup canister. Rifle went through both sides. 9mm bounced off .357 went through one side. 1/2 in plywood rifle straight through, 9mm you could dig out of the dirt behind the plywood.

I would like to see something other than a Youtube video as evidence that a 9mm regularly penetrates more than a 5.56mm. :waiting:
The info is out there... just need to google it. I'll try to find some of the articles I have seen when I get home... easier for me to search from PC than it is on my iPad.
by cyphertext
Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:18 pm
Forum: Rifles & Shotguns
Topic: Home Defense Weapon
Replies: 42
Views: 4003

Re: Home Defense Weapon

superstar wrote:so for those that prefer a shotty, do you hunt? shoot clay? practice shooting at moving targets? why do you feel confident that you will not miss? (in the hypothetical scenario that you only have the shotty plus 17 rounds).
I don't think anyone is making the assumption that they will not miss with a shotgun. But on the other hand, I feel confident that if I hit center mass with 9, .30 cal pellets, the threat has most likely been stopped. I also realize that if I do miss, the sheet rock isn't stopping those pellets.

Yes, I do hunt and shoot skeet and sporting clays... but in my plan to hole up in the bedroom with the shotgun trained on the door, as the badguy comes into my room, his range of movement is very limited by the door frame, a wall, and some furniture.
by cyphertext
Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:11 pm
Forum: Rifles & Shotguns
Topic: Home Defense Weapon
Replies: 42
Views: 4003

Re: Home Defense Weapon

ScottDLS wrote:
Nuts wrote:.223/5.56 has less of a chance of over penetration then 9mm.
I seriously doubt that... There's not nearly enough information in the hypothetical to make that blanket statement. As a rule, all else being equal (which it never is) the bullet with the greater velocity and less front facing surface area, will penetrate more of the same material, than the slower fatter one.

We've all seen the Youtube with the 9mm going through 5 sheets of drywall while the 5.56 doesn't. It's a cool video, but has effectively no application to real life. To get the best answer, you have to consider the material, the angle, the distance, the number of different materials, bullet type (FMJ, HP, JHP, lead, etc.), distance, and so on and so on. Just because somebody got a 55gr FMJ 5.56 round to tumble in a few sheets of drywall doesn't mean it's going to do the same thing in your house.

If I'm faced with a bad guy in my bedroom, and have a choice between my 9mm SIG and my 16" AR-15 carbine, I'm taking the pistol. If the guy's shooting at me from down the street, I'll take my rifle. No way I'm popping off a 5.56 in my house thinking it has less chance of hitting the kids' in their bedroom than a 9mm.
Experts in LE and military would disagree with you. Of course it comes down to bullet choice. I doubt that folks who are addressing penetration with 5.56mm are advocating using xm855 as the ammo of choice. But even the 55gr fmj has shown to lose velocity and break apart when impacting common household building materials such as sheetrock.
by cyphertext
Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:20 am
Forum: Rifles & Shotguns
Topic: Home Defense Weapon
Replies: 42
Views: 4003

Re: Home Defense Weapon

Skiprr wrote:
And what I didn't mention before is that no long gun is as efficient as a handgun when needing to clear a residential structure with typically tight hallways and rooms branched off at right angles. Again, I think it's about one's individual situation. Since you can't sleep in your carry kit with holster and spare mags, in your pajamas at oh-dark-thirty you're probably gonna be limited to whichever firearm you choose to grab. If other bedrooms in the house are occupied and there's a good chance you'd have to clear rooms on your way there, the mobility of a handgun is hard to beat, and probably what you want, IMHO.

In my case, our master bedroom is downstairs and the gun safe in the walk-in closet adjoining the bathroom; three tight turns to get to that master closet after you're in the bedroom--easily defended--and the safe and ammo cans line the only two walls anyone could realistically try to shoot through. No one else in the house; no one sleeping upstairs. Our drill is--in the event of the home alarm, breaking glass, or crashing doors--she is in the master closet "safe room," opening the gun safe, arming herself, calling 911, and holding the fort. I have my AR in hand and may or may not leave the master bedroom, as circumstances dictate.
Unless you have been trained and practice building clearing techniques, clearing your home is a bad idea, especially alone. I realize that sometimes you may have to move to another room to protect children, but if you can, hole up, call the police, and point that hallway howitzer, aka shotgun, at the door to the bedroom.

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