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by couzin
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:21 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Alligator defense question
Replies: 30
Views: 2771

Re: Alligator defense question

You are just making this hard on yourself. Leave your firearm in the car and go into the office. Don't overthink this.
by couzin
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:55 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Alligator defense question
Replies: 30
Views: 2771

Re: Alligator defense question

Interblog wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:57 am
Thanks for that great info above. I would have thought that TPWD game wardens fulfill the function of enforcement on Rayburn as they do on other Texas waterways... but you know what they say about the word "assume".
TPWD has authority to enforce Texas laws on USACE and other Federal lands by agreement. They can also assist with enforcement of Federal laws by question, search, detain, arrest, and pursue. It is then up to the Federal agency to file charges and the Federal Judicial Court District Attorney will then consider the case or file it with the area Federal courts. USACE Park Rangers have the citation authority found in 36CFR327 and also have authority to initiate charges that are in violation of a whole host of other Federal laws.

If there is no discernable boundary between your property and that of USACE fee lands, and you have widow makers or dead timber that you are unsure of who owns what, go to the park office and ask to talk to someone. They are not unreasonable folks.
by couzin
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:56 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Alligator defense question
Replies: 30
Views: 2771

Re: Alligator defense question

Interblog wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:29 pm
Can anyone expound on this please? The property adjoining the lake is private property. At some point there is an invisible line on the shore where we step onto USACOE property (dry land) as we approach the water's edge. Is the entire water surface (submerged land) considered "federal" for firearms purposes?
The fee boundary is very close to the normal pool level (164.40'asl) at Sam Rayburn in a number of areas, so a lot of private property abuts the fee boundary - and, in some cases or erosion, the fee boundary is 'out there in the water'. USACE fee lands are clearly marked with monuments or blazed trees. Additionally, there are flood pool (173'asl) easements that limit what can be done on the land even though it is private land - however, that is a real estate easement and the applicability of 36CFR327 does not occur (unless one is shooting into the fee owned portion. To further muddy the waters, so to speak, in that the US Forest Service has land abutting the pool as well as under water.

In a short answer, some land adjacent to the water is USACE fee owned, and the water/land for a distance below the structure (dam), the reservoir, and up the Angelina River is USACE controlled and subject to the regulations in 36CFR327.

I say controlled because the water in the reservoir is (usually) managed like a layer cake, some storage is for flood control, some is for recreation, some (in this case) is for power generation, and some is for water supply. Other State and Federal agencies have control of how much is used, how much is released.I

As to other issues raised in this thread. A bunch of bubbas in a boat duck hunting is legal, because they are hunting (assume legally), which is permitted.

As to the US Army not honoring the Constitution. Not true at all. Regulations in 36CFR327 were written when it was illegal to carry weapons on most Federally controlled lands. Things have changed at other Federal agencies, it is just taking longer for USACE to come up with changes. I suspect, but do not have comfirmation, that the reasoning is that USACE Park Rangers are not armed and do not have the authority to seize, pursue, or detain. They can only write citations, call for authorized law enforcement, or hose you down with pepper spray. Other Federal land owning agencies have their own armed law enforcement. So... for ranger safety, probably no foreseeable changes in the ability to carry firearms on USACE lands or waters.

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