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TVGuy wrote: Not sure how you don't see the difference there. In the example above, you chose to jump out of the window (stupidly) and got hurt. This is not the same as the incident we are discussing.

Let's make it the same...

We are at a party and Soccerdad is drunk. He acts like he might and tells me he will jump out of the window, so I grab some large knives out of the kitchen and jam them in the ground below, pointing upward toward the window.

Soccerdad jumps and thinks it's a good idea to pull his girlfriend out with him, both land on the knives and nearly die.

Yes, Soccerdad made a poor decision. By putting the knives down there I was a complete moron and criminally responsible.

There is a reason the old man is in prison and the rider only got a couple of tickets.

I'm not advocating breaking the law. I've never driven without a license, or insurance. I can't say I've never driven or ridden over the speed limit. The number of people driving without a license or insurance makes me frustrated, but that doesn't mean I'm going to open fire on one.

The rider did something dumb, illegal, and dangerous. He got hurt. I'm not saying he "deserved" to get hurt. But I am also saying that I don't feel sorry for him. I do feel sorry for his passenger. She did nothing dumb or dangerous other than trust her life to the rider of that motorcycle.

Separately, the car driver also did something illegal. He is going to prison for that action. I also don't feel sorry for him. What the car driver did was worse than what the rider did. But both had the potential to harm other people.

This isn't a mutually exclusive situation. They can both be in the wrong, and IMHO, they both are.

And no one opened fire on anyone else in this case, as far as I know. But if someone had randomly opened fire for no reason, they also would have been in the wrong. And miraculously, even that would not suddenly erase the fact that the rider was breaking the law. He would STILL be in the wrong.

TVGuy wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

TVGuy wrote:We don't know the circumstances for the invalid license charge. Did he never have a class "M" license? Did he never have a license? Was it the day after his birthday and it expired?

The old man tried to kill these two people, he then had zero remorse after he saw what his actions caused. This thread is about lane splitting, which is currently illegal. Would you have an only somewhat problem if someone was lane splitting and a cage driver shot them? What about someone going 70 in a 65 (in a car), are they worthy of agg assault or attempted murder?

Some of the responses here are bizarre.

I have not seen a single post here saying that the car driver was in the right. Everyone is saying that he was wrong. A lot of folks are also saying that the motorcycle rider was in the wrong.

Did the rider "deserve" to get injured? No.

Was the car driver right to try and injure him and his passenger? No.

Was the motorcycle rider also in the wrong? Yes.

Could the rider's actions have injured someone else? Yes.

Could this whole incident have been avoided if the motorcycle rider been responsible and followed the law? Yes.

These are the consistent responses throughout this thread. Which part do you find to be "bizarre"? Do you not believe there is mutual fault here?

This is the comment that concerned me:

If he was injured while breaking the law, here's the world's smallest violin

That's the equivalent of saying "he deserved it", which as I mentioned above is bizarre.

I took it as meaning that he didn't feel sorry for the motorcycle rider, not that the rider deserved to get injured. Subtle difference, but meaningful.

If I get drunk and jump out of a second story window, do I "deserve" to break a leg? No. I haven't harmed anyone, so why would I "deserve" to be injured?

But does anyone feel sorry for me if I do break a leg? No, because I was doing something reckless and stupid that led to my injury.

TVGuy wrote:We don't know the circumstances for the invalid license charge. Did he never have a class "M" license? Did he never have a license? Was it the day after his birthday and it expired?

The old man tried to kill these two people, he then had zero remorse after he saw what his actions caused. This thread is about lane splitting, which is currently illegal. Would you have an only somewhat problem if someone was lane splitting and a cage driver shot them? What about someone going 70 in a 65 (in a car), are they worthy of agg assault or attempted murder?

Some of the responses here are bizarre.

I have not seen a single post here saying that the car driver was in the right. Everyone is saying that he was wrong. A lot of folks are also saying that the motorcycle rider was in the wrong.

Did the rider "deserve" to get injured? No.

Was the car driver right to try and injure him and his passenger? No.

Was the motorcycle rider also in the wrong? Yes.

Could the rider's actions have injured someone else? Yes.

Could this whole incident have been avoided if the motorcycle rider been responsible and followed the law? Yes.

These are the consistent responses throughout this thread. Which part do you find to be "bizarre"? Do you not believe there is mutual fault here?

So on the one hand, we have a guy driving without a license, speeding, and illegally passing a vehicle. On the other hand we have a guy failing to maintain his lane and making contact with the cyclist who should not have been there in the first place. It sounds like we have at least two people who are making the roads less safe. The fact that the car driver made contact intentionally is, of course, huge. And it is why he will be spending a good chunk of his remaining days in prison. But the illegal act of the cycle rider is what led to the injuries in the first place. His actions could have just as easily injured an innocent driver coming up over that hill.

Like some of the other posters in this thread, I agree with the car driver's punishment, and I also think there is blame on both sides here. This is not dissimilar to the recent case of a guy who waited in his basement for home invaders and then ultimately ended up executing one of them. Yes, that homeowner broke the law and will also rightly spend the majority of his remaining years in prison. And, no I don't feel sorry for the home invaders who committed a crime and ended up getting killed by another criminal (the home owner). I feel sorry for people who are victimized through no fault of their own. I don't have much sympathy left over for folks who are injured as a result of actions stemming from their own intentional violation of laws.

Most people who ride motorcycles are responsible and safe. Most car and truck drivers are also responsible and safe. There are a minority of irresponsible people in both camps and they should not be defended, IMHO. They are the ones making everyone else look bad.

TVGuy wrote:

JustSomeOldGuy wrote:Yeah, means one more place I have to look out for Squids that are too dumb to look out for themselves......

on another note, many of the Harleys I've seen lately, especially the ones with 'ape hangers' won't FIT between the lanes of traffic. I suspect we'll be getting some new youtube videos out of this one if it passes........

The widest of bikes will fit between cars in the middle of standard lanes. It may look tight from the car, but it's not at all.

But will they fit between cars (or trucks) that are near the respective edges of their lanes? It's not like other vehicles are not required to be centered in their lanes. Still I think the 5mph max differential would obviate this issue as the biker could see that there is not enough room and stop in time.

Would it be safer to let the bikers use the shoulder instead of going between lanes (assuming the same speed restrictions)?

bnc wrote:As someone who got back into riding last spring, I'm about 100000000000% behind this bill! Some of the scariest times in my life have been at the tail end of backed up traffic hoping the guy behind me is paying attention. It would be awesome to no longer have to choose between safety and legality (I've always chosen legality).

I can see opponents of this bill using the "blood in the streets" argument, which is as silly here as it is with gun laws. Splitting lanes when traffic is going 20mph or less and the bike is going no more than 5mph above traffic is perfectly safe and quite tame.

I'll definitely be adding this to the list of bills to mention to my reps.



Charles, welcome back! Where do we sign up for the PSC Bikes & Bullets Club?

I doubt you will find too many people who disagree with the part that I bolded. The problem arises when irresponsible bikers lane split while travelling at speeds which are significantly greater than 5 mph over the speed of other traffic, as happens in places like California. I am envisioning somewhere like Houston on the Westpark Tollway where you have frequent elevation changes in the roadway and resulting blind spots just after each one. A motorcycle would have to be going at a pretty low speed to safely stop if a car was in the middle of two lanes just over that ridge (as frequently happens while trying to change lanes in stopped traffic). If bikers overall are going to be responsible with this, then I think it is fine. But I have personally seen a not insignificant number of very irresponsible bikers out there (including the moron who passed me on the right shoulder while I was going 75mph and then turned and pointed a camera inside my car).

Net-net, I would be in favor of this law with the restrictions noted (20 mph max speed, and a differential of 5 mph or less), and a presumption of liability on the biker who is doing this for any collisions with vehicles.

Now can we do something about the people who stand in between lanes of traffic at stoplights in Houston and don't bother to move after the light changes?

RoyGBiv wrote:Would love to be able to filter to the front at traffic lights... !!
Not only would it speed up my journeys, but sitting at the back of the queue is a good way to get smashed by an inattentive driver.

Not sure how much I'd split slow moving traffic. At least not until it was a"thing" for a while and cage drivers got used to it.

I'm also in the "hard to believe I want a California law here" camp.

Is the bill intended to allow for cutting to the front in a normal stoplight situation? That seems different than a traffic congestion situation.

I am fine with this as long as the onus is placed on the motorcycle rider to ensure that this maneuver can be done safely. I go to California about once a year, and it is not uncommon for me to see some very close calls with cars changing lanes and riders barely missing rear view mirrors with the sides of their bikes.