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anygunanywhere wrote: If you ever want to learn how to launch a MK48 torpedo and what all goes into torpedo fire control and target tracking and analysis, look me up. Not all "combat" is done on the ground.

Trust me, I'm not trying to denigrate anyone's service. I am simply saying that for the purposes of this thread topic, which is school security, if we want to exempt veterans from training, then we need to make sure those veteran's actually handled a firearm as part of their service. Army = yes. Air Force / Navy = Maybe. I am impressed with anyone's ability to launch a torpedo, and I'm sure it is plenty complicated, but it is not really all that relevant to school protection (unless the shooter happens to be attacking from the bottom of the swimming pool). Same goes for my training on how to calculate fire direction commands for a howitzer. Interesting and possibly also impressive, but not all that relevant.

Personally, I would be in favor of requiring volunteers to have a LTC, at a minimum. Realistically, they probably need a more targeted training that includes things like rules of engagement, coordination between security force members, and skills other than direct engagement of a shooter like how to effectively get exposed students to cover, first aid, etc., etc. I, personally do not think that any type of military service would be completely sufficient on it's own.

anygunanywhere wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

rotor wrote:

clarionite wrote:

rotor wrote:FYI, although I had 8 years of active duty in the USAF I never once had any training in firearms or ever touched a military weapon. The closest I came to weapon training was watching an AR-15 shot at a watermelon. All firearm use that I had was on my own. The concept that military service and firearm training go hand in hand is not correct. Otherwise your project sounds great.

How did you go through Basic and not fire a military weapon? I went through Army basic and fired Rifles, threw grenades and fired AT4 trainers.
I have two kids in the USAF currently, and they both qualified with rifles. My daughter was excited to have made expert, told me I trained her well. She was the only one in her group that did. I told her she was probably the only one in her group that owned her own, so it was to be expected. Although hers has very non standard issue Pink furniture. ;)

Spent 2 weeks at Sheppard. They let us observe an enlisted man hold an AR-15 to his chin, shoot a watermelon which exploded, and that one single round was my total experience with firearms in the service. I had my own firearms of course. The point is that just because you are a veteran does not mean you know anything about firearms. I am also an experienced pilot with multiple ratings but never once went up in a military plane. I wish that i could have played with all of the toys but never did.

Maybe we should limit the "veteran" part to just Army and Marines and not necessarily include other non-combat branches. FWIW, my brother told me that he never fired a weapon of any kind during his time in Navy basic training, either.

I was never in combat like a marine or soldier, but did go head to head with a soviet submarine during the cold war.

I did annually qualify with the M-14 rifle and 1911 pistol in order to qualify as topside security, ship's rifleman, and NUCLEAR WEAPON SECURITY GUARD. If the Navy trusted me enough to provide security for nuclear weapons I'm pretty certain I can protect kids. Your blanket statement needs to be withdrawn because there were plenty of Army and Marines who never saw combat much less were as proficient with weapons as a lot of sailors and airmen. Stop painting with such a broad brush.

My comment was meant to be tongue in cheek and a bit of a jab at the other services, especially the "non-combat" part .

But there is some underlying truth regarding firearm familiarity. I was Army, and even our finance specialists went through Basic and qualified with M-16's as a minimum. They also learned the basics of first aid, communications, and tactical patrols. I was floored when my brother told me that he never touched a weapon during training. One advantage of the Army way of doing this is that if anyone tells you they were in the Army, you instantly know they received training on various things including how to operate and maintain a MSR. As you, yourself point out, for the other services this is not necessarily the case. So to the extent we think this should be a requirement, then we cannot blanket exempt all Air Force / Navy veterans like we could do for the Army, and I presume also the Marines.

rotor wrote:

clarionite wrote:

rotor wrote:FYI, although I had 8 years of active duty in the USAF I never once had any training in firearms or ever touched a military weapon. The closest I came to weapon training was watching an AR-15 shot at a watermelon. All firearm use that I had was on my own. The concept that military service and firearm training go hand in hand is not correct. Otherwise your project sounds great.

How did you go through Basic and not fire a military weapon? I went through Army basic and fired Rifles, threw grenades and fired AT4 trainers.
I have two kids in the USAF currently, and they both qualified with rifles. My daughter was excited to have made expert, told me I trained her well. She was the only one in her group that did. I told her she was probably the only one in her group that owned her own, so it was to be expected. Although hers has very non standard issue Pink furniture. ;)

Spent 2 weeks at Sheppard. They let us observe an enlisted man hold an AR-15 to his chin, shoot a watermelon which exploded, and that one single round was my total experience with firearms in the service. I had my own firearms of course. The point is that just because you are a veteran does not mean you know anything about firearms. I am also an experienced pilot with multiple ratings but never once went up in a military plane. I wish that i could have played with all of the toys but never did.

Maybe we should limit the "veteran" part to just Army and Marines and not necessarily include other non-combat branches. FWIW, my brother told me that he never fired a weapon of any kind during his time in Navy basic training, either.