Search found 4 matches

by Rob72
Thu May 17, 2018 12:02 pm
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Medical accessories
Replies: 30
Views: 6143

Re: Medical accessories

I believe there's a difference in perception, working within the law, between having done it, and imagining a hypothetical "what if."

If you carry a kit, Good Samaritan covers you, if you are a bystander.

If you have documented training, are an active participant in a shooting, decide that the scene is safe, AND decide to intervene, just be sure that what you do is within your scope of training.

I may be reading some posts with the bias of having followed the efforts of Randy Rescue, and having seen the effects (physical and legal) of extremely well-meaning, but painfully ill-considered actions.

I will summarize by suggesting that if you believe you may have the call to render aid to someone who is not definitively "the victim" at a shooting scene, seek out advanced trauma training, and develop the skills to verbalize why you act in a given way. The inability to verbalize your decision-making process will sink your boat.

Be safe!
by Rob72
Thu May 03, 2018 8:48 am
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Medical accessories
Replies: 30
Views: 6143

Re: Medical accessories

Soccerdad1995 wrote: Wouldn't this same legal argument also be true if you came upon a car crash and tried, but failed, to save the victim(s). Good Samaritan laws are specifically intended to protect the well meaning person in these cases, even if that well meaning person actually does more harm than good.

Obviously, the claim of trying to deliberately "finish him off" would only apply in a shooting situation, not a car crash. But then your attorney could point out that you still had bullets in your gun and could have easily "finished him off" much simpler if that was your intent. I'm assuming here that you didn't empty your gun and still have a live BG on your hands. That would be a bit unlikely unless you are using a .22 or you are a really bad shot.
Your attorney can make quite a few arguments, but it won't change the fact that to most reasonable people, you have a vested interest.

In a car accident (MVA), you may have "heart interest", i.e., you genuinely want to help these people survive a traumatic event, but it will not financially, or in any other specific manner, benefit or cost you in any way.

Regardless of what you, or your attorney, says, there is quite a bit of truth in, "one story, end of story." IOW, my chances of life continuing outside of prison, crushing legal debt, and years in court, dramatically increase if the person I shot isn't showing up in a wheelchair, with his distressed momma, Awwntie, and brood of offspring, wailing about what a burden it is that this fine upstanding church-going, recovering addict, Daddy is no longer able to work part time at Dollar Tree.



Not meaning to drag this soooo far OT, but this is a serious topic, and I'm both licensed and have several years of pre-hospital experience in a fairly violent metropolitan environment.

Regarding the idea that "pain and suffering" are a result of the actions of the person you shot, that's very iffy. Legally, if you did not "stop the threat"(i.e. Tommy isn't dead), either your training and competence were inadequate, or you felt the threat was stopped. It's either-or. The option of stating that you were, "so rattled that my aim was off," is the poorest of a set of bad options, regarding what to say.

I carry a pretty complete kit, but it's very much a limited use piece of gear. I carry a larger, multi-use bag to church, or select social gatherings.
by Rob72
Thu May 03, 2018 8:32 am
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Medical accessories
Replies: 30
Views: 6143

Re: Medical accessories

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Rob72 wrote:
Odinvalknir wrote:
2. Do you think it is logical to proceed to give medical first aid to someone whom you have just use your weapon against?
The moment you touch the person whom you have shot, your legal position changes. It will be your burden to prove that their demise was not the result of your malfeasance or incompetence. The DA might take a pass on the question, a civil attorney, regardless of the justifiability of the shoot, has grounds to bring a suit because of the malpractice/malfeasance question. Render aid = call 911.

I have a small personal pack, and a more complete kit in the vehicle.
Do we have a good samaritan law in Texas protects us from liability if we are attempting to render aid to those in need (crash victims, etc)? If we do that would seem to also cover this situation. If we don't, then that would probably impact my decision on rendering aid in all situations, to be honest.
I would suggest talking to a good Criminal Defense and/or Medical Malpractice attorney.

Here's the problem: 1) You decided that lethal force was required. 2)You are now performing actions that may directly stop a terminal process (bleed-out, hemo-/pneumothorax, etc..), OR MAY ACCELERATE THE TERMINAL PROCESS.

If you've taken a class dealing with trauma care, in the context of a shooting incident, it is definitely debatable whether you are a "Good Samaritan", as defined by law, or a Reasonably Competent Individual(legal terms & definitions will vary). The difference is that a RCI is accountable for their actions because of training/preparation, to act within the presented circumstances.

Short version: you may be a Good Samaritan if you, as a bystander/witness to a shooting act to preserve life & limb of an injured party.

If you have taken a Stop The Bleed class, or similar, and have been directly involved in the shooting you are probably both a RCI and a "participant", meaning that you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that(i.e.) you DIDN'T want Tommy Thugaroo dead so badly that you didn't cover his wound with a bandage, but didn't actually apply sufficient pressure to stop exsanguination.

If you have no professional training, or training related to trauma care for civvies, you are an involved party to a shooting, and the person you shot expires while you are pushing/pressing/torquing on them, civilly you still have to be able to prove that your actions didn't make the situation worse; criminally, you may be practicing medicine without a license.

Just call 911. Life will be bad enough, just dealing with "regular" consequences of shooting someone.
by Rob72
Wed May 02, 2018 8:38 am
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Medical accessories
Replies: 30
Views: 6143

Re: Medical accessories

Odinvalknir wrote:
2. Do you think it is logical to proceed to give medical first aid to someone whom you have just use your weapon against?
The moment you touch the person whom you have shot, your legal position changes. It will be your burden to prove that their demise was not the result of your malfeasance or incompetence. The DA might take a pass on the question, a civil attorney, regardless of the justifiability of the shoot, has grounds to bring a suit because of the malpractice/malfeasance question. Render aid = call 911.

I have a small personal pack, and a more complete kit in the vehicle.

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