Search found 11 matches

by Grundy1133
Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:25 pm
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Ammo type for Self Defense
Replies: 33
Views: 2475

Re: Ammo type for Self Defense

flechero wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:Am I losing much by just running the same weight and type of bullet in guns with different barrel lengths?
I don't think so. As long as you have proven that ammo choice in your own guns. Most ammo will perform fine from most guns... does that leave some gaps? Sure, but as long as the ammo runs in your gun, that solves 95% of the problem. Is it possible to get slightly better performance out of each gun by tailoring the choice for each? Maybe, but that's a LOT of time, money and effort.

In the discussion above, we're splitting hairs on a particular round in .40 cal... because it's a slow day. :lol:


Grundy- look up DIY ballistic gelatin (with knox gelatin). There are a few ways to make it- a couple get close enough to calibrate. And after you shoot it up and recover your rounds, you can remelt it and use it again. :thumbs2:
awesome I'll definitely check it out.knox gelatin.. and yeah flechero, we're just shootin the breeze
by Grundy1133
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:53 pm
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Ammo type for Self Defense
Replies: 33
Views: 2475

Re: Ammo type for Self Defense

flechero wrote:Grundy,

I'm not trying to suggest that your ammo isn't great- but actual testing seems to be in conflict with some of the marketing info. (which by nature is supposed to make any ammo sound like the proverbial magic bullet) Just because they say it's designed to do x,y or z doesn't mean that your gun will act like their test guns or pressure chambers. No ammo can work perfect at all velocities and out of any gun.

Test in your own gun to see what happens. Gel and barrier tests are not too difficult to do if you have a place to do it, they are just time consuming to set up.

Just because you have a 5" bbl doesn't mean your performance is going to be better than a 4" bbl... I have a 45acp in 4" that routinely outpaces a 5" in the chronograph. Is that normal- no, but it happens enough to not take what the marketing guys say, as Gospel. Remember these are same the people who make "zombie" killing ammo. :lol:
true, true... i wouldnt even know where to get ballistics gel. i definitely have a place to do it tho.
by Grundy1133
Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:49 am
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Ammo type for Self Defense
Replies: 33
Views: 2475

Re: Ammo type for Self Defense

flechero wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote: see on all these tests, they use a compact for the S&W .40 which causes hornady critical duty (the ammo i carry) to over penetrate. however I carry a fullsize, which is what critical duty was really designed for... I wish they would have shot the ammo from a gun that the ammo was meant for.
Only two ways to make a bullet over penetrate gel... more velocity or less/no expansion.

What you have suggested is that duty ammo from a 1" shorter barrel is either moving faster (which it's not) or that it's moving so much slower that it's not expanding. This is more likely but still not comforting... generally handgun rounds don't lose more than 50-100 fps when dropping an inch to a compact. So if you are that close to the speed it fails to expand then anything you hit prior (think clothing even) will slow the bullet before it is in tissue. And considering that gel is the OPTIMUM medium for bullet expansion, you will likely see less real world performance on any real target.

If you are that close to the expansion/performance edge then I would consider an alternate carry ammo. I would at least test the critical defense in your gun... sounds like it expands at lower velocity and expands more reliably.
Critical Duty® handgun ammunition is built to meet the needs and requirements of LAW ENFORCEMENT and TACTICAL PROFESSIONALS, as well as those law abiding citizens who prefer a full-size handgun for their personal protection and demand superior barrier penetration and subsequent terminal performance.
In addition, Critical Duty® loads are "full power loads" designed to function full-size handgun slides. Although designed to work flawlessly in ALL handguns, these loads are NOT optimized for short barreled, concealed carry style handguns; they will deliver standard recoil during firing.
https://www.hornady.com/support/duty-de ... ifferences

Thats really why i went witih critical duty. I asked them why that was the case, and they said shooting critical defense from a full size doesnt allow th eround to reach optimum velocity due to the lack of gun powder. and shooting the higher grain out of a compact causes the critical duty to exceed their optimum velocity causing them to over penetrate... *shrug* it was awhile ago when i asked them and i have long since deleted the email, so i might have the details a bit off... the gist i took away from them was critical duty was better for fullsize guns and defense was best for shorter barrel guns.
by Grundy1133
Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:09 pm
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Ammo type for Self Defense
Replies: 33
Views: 2475

Re: Ammo type for Self Defense

Which should you choose for your defensive handgun? If you don't mind recoil, like more penetration and think you might have to deal with bad guys shooting at you from behind barriers, go with Critical Duty. If you prefer wider expansion and less recoil, choose Critical Defense, which is optimized for use in short-barreled, compact handguns.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/art ... ical-duty/
I carry full size which is the only reason I use critical Duty. If I ever started carrying a compact I'd prolly switch to critical defense.
by Grundy1133
Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:54 am
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Ammo type for Self Defense
Replies: 33
Views: 2475

Re: Ammo type for Self Defense

RandyM wrote:this article just came out, comparing ammo in 380, 9mm, 40, and 45, has images of each shot thru gel, good article.

https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/be ... 0-20729049
see on all these tests, they use a compact for the S&W .40 which causes hornady critical duty (the ammo i carry) to over penetrate. however I carry a fullsize, which is what critical duty was really designed for... I wish they would have shot the ammo from a gun that the ammo was meant for. People look at all the different ammo that over penetrates and think wow that ammo sucks. but in rality its just being shot from the wrong kind of gun. same issue on the link someone else posted. the ammos being shot from a compact. Critical Defense is designed for compacts and Critical Duty is designed for full size guns. I'm gonna see if i can find a ballistics test done with compacts and full sizes. If i find anything Ill post it here for others who may carry a full size.
by Grundy1133
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:33 pm
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Ammo type for Self Defense
Replies: 33
Views: 2475

Re: Ammo type for Self Defense

carlson1 wrote:May be interesting to some.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-d ... tests/#9mm
i carry a S&W .40. and that site gave some good info concerning the caliber itself as well as the different ammos tested...

Image

I'm starting to question if critical duty is the way to go or not... they seemed to over penetrate quite a bit. but ive people say "flesh and bone isnt the same as ballistic gel"...
Edit: just noticed the test gun was a Glock 27 sub compact I have a full size M&P... So ignore this post... Heh.
by Grundy1133
Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:59 pm
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Ammo type for Self Defense
Replies: 33
Views: 2475

Re: Ammo type for Self Defense

lots of good info here! thanks for all the feedback!
by Grundy1133
Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:16 am
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Ammo type for Self Defense
Replies: 33
Views: 2475

Re: Ammo type for Self Defense

cmgee67 wrote:I really like the Hornady XTP 124gr + P in full size and the regular 115 in my sub compacts. The xtp performs very well is very accurate and I whole heartled trust it along with a lot of others I know. The reason I shoot the hotter load in the full size is well because of the full size gun. The weight and size of the gun allow me to use a hotter load. I could carry the same load in my sub compacts but the 115 gr are less snappy and allow me quicker follow up shots and helps me to stay more accurate. When asking about SD ammo it is a can of worms. Almost any
modern HP ammo will do the trick. I think people get so worried that they don’t have the magical bullet. Honeslty I pray the only time I ever have to crank off my HP defensive ammo is when I’m rotating the old out to new fresh stuff. Stay safe and carry on, cheers
one thing that really drew me to hornady critical duty is that they're waterproofed. the primers are coated with waterproof chemicala nd the casing is crimped to the slug so you dont have to worry about old ammo getting wet from sweating and humid temps (gotta love texas weather :txflag: ). im not sure if other ammo is waterproof or not but between that and almost all my friends saying to use hornady, i think ill go with the hornady critical duty for my full size M&P 40
by Grundy1133
Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:38 pm
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Ammo type for Self Defense
Replies: 33
Views: 2475

Re: Ammo type for Self Defense

bblhd672 wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:Not really sure where to post this, but I have a full size M1 M&P .40 and I've heard people say golden sabers are good for self defense, and some say hornady critical defense. However a buddy of mine suggested the hornady critical duty since I have a full size. He said that with critical defense in a full size, the slug won't reach its peak velocity... I know critical defense is meant for use against targets with only medium-thick clothing and critical duty are designed to penetrate barricades and still be able to penetrate the target and expand as intended. My concern is if I'm carrying critical duty and not behind a barricade of any kind, will the round over-penetrate? Anyone have thoughts on the matter or suggestions for a good self defense round to carry?
http://preparedgunowners.com/2015/04/28 ... pt-3-of-3/
Ok i notice in that list that hornady critical duty is on the 9mm list and 45 list but not the S&W 40.... did they just forget it? because logic dictates that if it works for 9mm and .45 it should work for .40 also lol
by Grundy1133
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:54 pm
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Ammo type for Self Defense
Replies: 33
Views: 2475

Re: Ammo type for Self Defense

Alright, thanks. I guess if my life is in danger I wouldn't be too concerned with over-penetration, but during our LTC class our instructor gave a warning about over penetration and hitting a bystander and it kind of has me nervous about carrying a round that might over penetrate.
by Grundy1133
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:45 pm
Forum: Holsters & Accessories
Topic: Ammo type for Self Defense
Replies: 33
Views: 2475

Ammo type for Self Defense

Not really sure where to post this, but I have a full size M1 M&P .40 and I've heard people say golden sabers are good for self defense, and some say hornady critical defense. However a buddy of mine suggested the hornady critical duty since I have a full size. He said that with critical defense in a full size, the slug won't reach its peak velocity... I know critical defense is meant for use against targets with only medium-thick clothing and critical duty are designed to penetrate barricades and still be able to penetrate the target and expand as intended. My concern is if I'm carrying critical duty and not behind a barricade of any kind, will the round over-penetrate? Anyone have thoughts on the matter or suggestions for a good self defense round to carry?

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