Search found 42 matches

by 03Lightningrocks
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:33 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

carlson1 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:30 pm
WildBill wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:18 pm
I have been reading some news reports about the shooting of Botham Jean and many of them
reveal that he was eating vanilla ice cream in his apartment when he was shot and killed.
Am I reading too much into this or would it have mattered if he was eating chocolate ice cream? :headscratch

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/07/us/dalla ... index.html
He had just smoked marijuana with the neighbor who was killed a week or so back. I guess the marijuana gave him the munchies and the ice cream was a fix.
I dunno. If he had the munchies he would have been sitting there with a loaf of bread, a jar of peanut butter and pizza rolls heating up in his oven.
by 03Lightningrocks
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:31 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

WildBill wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:18 pm
I have been reading some news reports about the shooting of Botham Jean and many of them
reveal that he was eating vanilla ice cream in his apartment when he was shot and killed.
Am I reading too much into this or would it have mattered if he was eating chocolate ice cream? :headscratch

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/07/us/dalla ... index.html
I kept wondering if he put chocolate syrup and peanuts on it or was just eating it plain.
by 03Lightningrocks
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:32 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

oljames3 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:52 am
This is a cautionary tale in many respects. One that stands out to me is that should I be force to use my self-defense handgun, I will be; 1) in fear for my life, 2) under extreme stress, 3) deciding and acting in seconds. Conversely, the jury will be; 1) in complete safety and relative comfort, 2) under relatively little stress, 3) deciding and acting in hours/days/weeks. What seemed reasonable to me in the moment may not appear reasonable to the jury in hindsight.
This is so very true! Sitting in a nice safe court room it is easy to arm chair quarterback.
by 03Lightningrocks
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:16 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

C-dub wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:28 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:41 pm
C-dub wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:32 pm
The problem I have with all of those "could haves" is the next time someone does shoot someone in their own home will some of those "could haves" be applied to them? If she were in her own apartment with the same outcome, would they have gone down that road? She had no legal requirement to retreat or call for back up, 911 for us, did she? Would a prosecutor attempt to put that requirement on us?

These are the things that bother me about this trial and the prosecutor's tactics.
That does not worry me because the could haves don't apply when defending ones own home. It was not her home. Thinking it is doesn't cut it and should not be OK. Her actions were in no way analogous to a person exercising their rights under the castle doctrine. Not even close.

Let's be real here. She walked into someone elses home and killed them. End of story. That is and always should be punishable by time in jail at the least. Put yourself in his place rather than hers.
I didn’t state my issues with all this very well. What I was really trying to get at was all about the mistake of fact stuff. She was unable to convince the jury that she really thought she was in her own apartment. Then she had the horrible testimony where she affirmed that her intention was to kill him.

My issue with the mistake of fact in this and possible future cases is when someone really is in fear for their life even when it is determined later that their life wasn’t really in any danger at all. The easiest example is when someone points an air soft gun at an LEO. The LEO(s) shoots and kills the air soft armed idiot and nothing happens to the LEO(s).

Am I over analyzing this?
Oh, I get what you are driving at now. I have been in that very situation using a firearm for self defense and at the time of defending myself was in fear for my life and the second time in fear for mine and my sons life. Both times I was concerned with whether or not my fear was real, after the fact on hindsight. I was fortunate in that nobody died and both times it never went to trial and was considered self defense by the law. These happened in 1983 and 1996. Times were different then and more gun self defense friendly I guess. These days it seems the courts are more critical of the victims than they are the criminals. I still believe she made a huge mistake and deserved to pay for it. But I do get what you are driving at.
by 03Lightningrocks
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:11 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

carlson1 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:34 pm
Grayling813 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:26 pm
WildBill wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:01 pm
ELB wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:11 pm
WildBill wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:00 pm
...
If he didn't have any arrests I don't think they would know.
I Bing'ed his name for Texas arrests, turns out "Joshua Brown" is a VERY popular name under which to be arrested. Too many for me to sort through.
I don't know the laws in Texas, but usually the attorney can impeach a witness if they are a felon.
Another reason for a higher court to declare the verdict void and to be retried?
If I was Guyger I don’t know that I would want to gamble that 10 year sentence and serving just 5 years. If she is retired and again on murder it is possible she would get double the 10 or more.
:iagree: She won't be found innocent. No way, no how. So the only thing to be gained is a lighter sentence. The risk of it doubling are just as possible.
by 03Lightningrocks
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:44 am
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

Turns out this Joshua Brown character was a fine young man. Regular salt of the earth type of guy.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2019/10 ... stigation/
Police said when they searched Brown's apartment, they confiscated 12 pounds of marijuana, 143 grams of THC cartridges and $4,000 in cash.
I suppose the tin foil hat race baiters will apologize as quickly as they puked forth their conspiracy theories? Not likely. :coolgleamA:
by 03Lightningrocks
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:08 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

Scott B. wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:17 pm
Scott B. wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:50 am
Could be random, could be bad luck, could be the people he procured his herb from were less than stellar citizens.
And the early verdict, "Killed in a drug deal." In this exchange, looks like he was the seller and not the buyer.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/speci ... urces-say/
There you have it. It is disgusting that the race baiters jumped out there instantly trying to tie his shooting in with the trial. Once again, they have egg on their faces.
by 03Lightningrocks
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:41 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

C-dub wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:32 pm
The problem I have with all of those "could haves" is the next time someone does shoot someone in their own home will some of those "could haves" be applied to them? If she were in her own apartment with the same outcome, would they have gone down that road? She had no legal requirement to retreat or call for back up, 911 for us, did she? Would a prosecutor attempt to put that requirement on us?

These are the things that bother me about this trial and the prosecutor's tactics.
That does not worry me because the could haves don't apply when defending ones own home. It was not her home. Thinking it is doesn't cut it and should not be OK. Her actions were in no way analogous to a person exercising their rights under the castle doctrine. Not even close.

Let's be real here. She walked into someone elses home and killed them. End of story. That is and always should be punishable by time in jail at the least. Put yourself in his place rather than hers.
by 03Lightningrocks
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:49 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

Ruark wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:39 pm
Watch the cross - notice the DA's approach, and again, something to keep in mind if you're ever on trial for shooting somebody. He kept repeating "you COULD have..." You COULD have taken cover, and she answered "I could have." You COULD have called for backup... and so on. So he paints a picture of all these things she COULD have done, but didn't, and as a result, an innocent man is dead, etc. etc.
If I am ever on trial for shooting somebody, it will be self defense and it sure won't be me shooting some guy in his own home. The could haves you mentioned were not some kind of trick. The cop screwed up big time and could have done a dozen things to keep from killing an innocent man.
by 03Lightningrocks
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:22 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

crazy2medic wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:52 am
Redneck_Buddha wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:27 am
crazy2medic wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:42 am
Dave2 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:34 pm
Ruark wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:42 am
I just have a hard time with her not understanding she was on the wrong floor and wrong apartment.
Other aspects of the case notwithstanding, this is completely understandable. I've made this mistake myself in the past, in apartments and hotels where all the floors, hallways, doors, etc. are identical. After 5,000 times, walking to your door just becomes automatic, especially when you're exhausted from a 14 hour shift. The elevator door opens, you step out, turn left, walk to the third door and go in. You could do it blindfolded. If the elevator HAPPENS to open on the next floor, it's very easy to not notice.
Eh, sorta? Two floors are rarely identical. At least in the apartment complexes I’ve lived in or been to, once people have been inhabiting it long enough, there are typically clues like different welcome mats, door decorations, or maybe someone has a potted plant out front or something. And if the stair case/elevator is near a window, the view can be drastically different depending on the height/appearance of neighboring buildings.

How aware you need to be to notice such things obviously depends on the details. Coming off a 14-hour shift would certainly not help.
Per the Texas Ranger that did the investigation he went to the wrong Apartment on three separate occasions, he had statements from 93 residents that stated they had gone to the wrong apartment, the Texas Ranger stated that neither the floors or apartments were marked! This has been my question all along why did she not note that the furniture was different or layed out different, just seems peculiar to me.
What's worse is that the judge failed to allow the jurors to be made aware of this.
Ok here is a question for Charles or anybody that is legality educated, why would a judge not allow this information to be known? Seems that tidbit would go to a fair and balanced trial? Seems her defense attorney would have pushed this and this could be part and parcel to an appeal!
I am betting her focus went to offense and she shot the man before even looking at the furniture. In small apartments location of furniture is often relegated to the same spot apartment to apartment due to square footage available. His sofa/chair may have been located right where hers was.
by 03Lightningrocks
Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:56 am
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

Paladin wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:01 am
philip964 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:37 pm
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -says.html

Assassinated lawyer says.

Refuses to rule out police involvement!

False flag?
Brown had no criminal history, nothing stolen, "no suspects or motives"... beyond the obvious. Once again Dallas makes international news. No matter what anyone says, truthfully DPD's reputation is taking a dramatic turn for the worse here. Whoever murdered Brown deserves a lot more than 10 years.
Who ever did it, I am not buying the cops did it angle. The story said he had no ID on him. Maybe it was a robbery and they took his wallet. A connection to the crime he witnessed is a far reach in my opinion. He would have been killed before he testified if it was related to his testimony.
by 03Lightningrocks
Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:05 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

crazy2medic wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:55 am
Makes no sense to me either, I don't believe she should have been convicted of murder, what she stated is entirely plausible, I have worked 24 and 36hr shifts and it was all I could do to get home! Working long shifts like that take a toll on your mental alertness!
I agree. I have done the same thing in hotels. Gotten off on the wrong floor and gone to the door in the same location as my door on a different floor. I have even tried to run the key card through the door before realizing my mistake. I use to live in a Fox and Jacobs house. These are basically cookie cutter houses. I would be rich if I had a nickle for every time someone walked up to my door thinking it was their house, and this was a house in a neighborhood. I believe it is easier to do than one might think.
by 03Lightningrocks
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:11 am
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

carlson1 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:21 pm
One of the attorney’s for Jean family has been asked to investigate. As the old preacher said, “gag a maggot off a gut wagon.”

If someone was doing this to effect the trial they were late. His testimony wasn’t what sealed the deal. I did hear him testify to meeting Botham that day and he said, “ I met him and we
smoked weed and sang gospel songs
.” All he said about the shooting was he never heard Guyger give commands. Not much in my opinion.
Now there is an interesting combination. That is right up there with getting drunk and baying at the moon. :shock:
by 03Lightningrocks
Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:45 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

dlh wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:32 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:16 pm
LDP wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:05 pm
Grayling813 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:54 am
Why Guyger’s attorneys failed to prepare her to answer a critical question like that correctly is a mystery. Perhaps they did and she just blew it.
Since her texting/sexting has come out in the open, I wonder what she was concentrating on during that deescalation class if she remembered none of it?
A) Does anyone know whether she had an incompetent public defender attorney or a good well-paid one? I am really surprised she said such stupid stuff on the stand.
B) She does not strike me as a smart or even competent person, she might not have been fit for duty to begin with but might have been "pushed through" all the exams and psych evals for the sake of "improving" meaningless statistical numbers (diversity etc). Wouldn't be the first time. Warning, this is merely a speculation on my part.
Was she suppose to lie about her intentions? I am not trying to be difficult but if her intentions were shoot to kill, should she have said it was only to shoot to stop? This is a question any of us could be asked. In 1996 I was involved in a self defense shooting. That question for me was easy. I honestly never had any desire to kill at all. I honestly was only trying to stop the attack. Never once did I have any desire to take human life. I was actually very relieved when I found I did not. My answer to that question resulted in a no-bill by the grand jury for self defense. To this day i never want to kill anyone and never have. Never once have I ever claimed anywhere or posted anything saying I wanted to "shoot to kill". She has. She answered the question honestly.
Do we know what she previously told investigators? I did not watch the trial so do not know. Maybe ( I am speculating--I don't know) she previously told investigating officers what she said on the stand--that she intended to kill. If so, then the prosecuting attorney could impeach her with her prior inconsistent statement if she testified on the stand she did not intend to kill...

One of these days I will get around to ordering a copy of the court's charge. Am very interested in how the trial judge instructed the jury, if at all, on a mistake of fact defense.
Good point. Maybe she had already admitted to trying to kill him in her statements. One thing I just cannot get over is that she had made several social media posts implying a shoot to kill mentality. She had even attempted to delete them. There is a link in the thread here detailing a few of her choice meme posts.
by 03Lightningrocks
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:16 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident
Replies: 414
Views: 21674

Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

LDP wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:05 pm
Grayling813 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:54 am
Why Guyger’s attorneys failed to prepare her to answer a critical question like that correctly is a mystery. Perhaps they did and she just blew it.
Since her texting/sexting has come out in the open, I wonder what she was concentrating on during that deescalation class if she remembered none of it?
A) Does anyone know whether she had an incompetent public defender attorney or a good well-paid one? I am really surprised she said such stupid stuff on the stand.
B) She does not strike me as a smart or even competent person, she might not have been fit for duty to begin with but might have been "pushed through" all the exams and psych evals for the sake of "improving" meaningless statistical numbers (diversity etc). Wouldn't be the first time. Warning, this is merely a speculation on my part.
Was she suppose to lie about her intentions? I am not trying to be difficult but if her intentions were shoot to kill, should she have said it was only to shoot to stop? This is a question any of us could be asked. In 1996 I was involved in a self defense shooting. That question for me was easy. I honestly never had any desire to kill at all. I honestly was only trying to stop the attack. Never once did I have any desire to take human life. I was actually very relieved when I found I did not. My answer to that question resulted in a no-bill by the grand jury for self defense. To this day i never want to kill anyone and never have. Never once have I ever claimed anywhere or posted anything saying I wanted to "shoot to kill". She has. She answered the question honestly.

Return to “Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident”