Search found 11 matches

by Excaliber
Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:28 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry
Replies: 82
Views: 17978

Re: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry

Another new entry in this category by Doubleclick Holsters, a family owned Texas based company, that looks like a really nice offering can be seen here.
by Excaliber
Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:04 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry
Replies: 82
Views: 17978

Re: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry

RHenriksen wrote:
Excaliber wrote:Gun Tests Magazine reviewed 5 retention holsters in the current month's issue. They were:

Blackhawk Gripbreak
DeSantis Facilitator
Galco M4X and M6x
Hogue ARS Stage One Carry

To make a long story short, only the Galco M6X (belt loop version) earned an A grade from the test team. The details of the reviews make excellent reading.
https://www.galcogunleather.com/m6x-aut ... _1198.html

Galco only lists the compact version of the M&P for this holster; does anyone know if the full sized version would also work w. it?
It looks like it has an open muzzle design. If that's the case and you wouldn't mind having about an inch of the slide showing below the holster, it may work.

I'd suggest giving the Galco folks a call to be sure.
by Excaliber
Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:54 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry
Replies: 82
Views: 17978

Re: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry

Gun Tests Magazine reviewed 5 retention holsters in the current month's issue. They were:

Blackhawk Gripbreak
DeSantis Facilitator
Galco M4X and M6x
Hogue ARS Stage One Carry

To make a long story short, only the Galco M6X (belt loop version) earned an A grade from the test team. The details of the reviews make excellent reading.

Reviews of 7 more retention holsters are coming next month.

For those considering open carry, these two sets of reviews alone would more than justify the cost of a subscription by helping you avoid purchasing holsters that won't do the job properly and end up in your holster box collection.
by Excaliber
Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:52 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry
Replies: 82
Views: 17978

Re: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry

Beiruty wrote:Why do I need another holster? :totap: :totap:
Well, just - because! :biggrinjester:
by Excaliber
Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:13 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry
Replies: 82
Views: 17978

Re: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry

kauboy wrote:
ELB wrote:But as it is now, open carriers are protected from gun grabs by their relative rarity, and there's not much to report.
Agreed. Thought should be given to the idea, but any amount of worry is currently unfounded. This could change.
John Galt wrote:This is why I would rather be concealed, and an element of surprise.
On the reverse, being concealed requires additional manipulation to get the gun ready.
Gun fights are generally over in 3-5 seconds, on average.
Some may prefer to forgo "surprise" in order to be ready faster.
Yep, and there's also the deterrent value of open vs. concealed carry. There are documented cases where bad guys decided not to go forward with a robbery while an open carrier was present.

There are pluses and minuses to both methods, and either is a reasonable choice.

January is almost here, and there will no doubt be more data coming soon.
by Excaliber
Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:54 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry
Replies: 82
Views: 17978

Re: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry

nightmare69 wrote:Even though it's not a practical OC holster for everyday carry,this is the holster I use on duty. If you're worried about someone disarming you buy this holster.

http://www.safariland.com/retention/mod ... ml#start=1
Good choice. I think that's the best one on the market today.
by Excaliber
Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:51 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry
Replies: 82
Views: 17978

Re: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry

ELB wrote:It is not hard to find reports of gun grabs attempted on police officers -- there are lots of police officers, and they have lots of interactions with people who might be inspired to make a grab.

When talking about non-police open carry, you're talking about a very small part of the population at large, or even among the gun carrying population. There are a very few open carriers sprinkled among millions of people, they're a pretty rare bird in the wild, and even rarer in the urban populations. And they're not as a general rule moving in the criminal (as opposed to "political") gun grabber element, nor generally seeking them out.

If open carry were to start achieving the frequency of other items that criminals like to grab, like cell phones, you would see a lot more reports. But as it is now, open carriers are protected from gun grabs by their relative rarity, and there's not much to report.

Frankly, legalized open carry is more of a political touchstone, a cultural indicator, than it is a practical reality.
Your points on the rarity of open carry and its character as a political touchstone rather than a practical reality are well taken.

I don't see criminals setting out to find an open carrier so they can snatch his gun. However, bad guys are resourceful opportunists, and if the opportunity to take one arises in a situation where someone thinks he can get away with it, we'll likely see him try.
by Excaliber
Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:34 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry
Replies: 82
Views: 17978

Re: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry

kauboy wrote:
Excaliber wrote: A
The "level 1" retention holsters linked in the OP are all designed with intuitive levers or buttons that would be depressed during any gun grab attempt. A thumb-break requires the correct grip AND knowledge of how to properly disengage it in order to draw the gun, as it requires an action not required of a normal draw. Disengaging it is not as intuitive as depressing a button that one's finger or thumb would naturally fall on during a draw attempt.
For this reason, if the premise is that OC *could* increase the number of gun grabs (though I doubt there is much evidence supporting this), a thumb-break would be the superior option.
This is likely the reason that most duty holsters use thumb-breaks.
You are correct that there is little history of gun grabs from civilians in Texas. That is largely because open carry won't begin until this coming January. Right now a criminal doesn't know someone is carrying a gun until it is drawn, and he doesn't try to grab what he doesn't know about. However, there is extensive history of gun grabs from the openly carried holsters of law enforcement officers. Prior to the invention of retention holsters, the vast majority of these were from holsters with simple thumb snap retaining devices. I believe this history is worth learning from, because the hard way to learn about this hurts a lot.

I had an opportunity to explore holster retention pretty thoroughly while I was writing the requirements for a 200 officer police department's holster regulations. Level 1 is friction only. A secondary device like a thumb strap or lever is Level 2, and two active devices or actions required to release the gun are level 3 (See Mas Ayoob's description of the level rating system here.)

A thumb break is not only intuitive for the wearer, it is in fact very easy for an observer to analyze and attack. It is even easy to do from the front, and this was proven many times in actual incidents. That method (which I won't describe here) is taught in prisons and is very well known among the criminal element. Our training cadre demonstrated it to every new officer at the range to make sure they were aware of just how easily and quickly it could be done. A thumb break is also easy for an adversary to release during a gun grab from the rear because placing the hand on the grip naturally places the thumb in position to release the thumbstrap. Even without releasing the thumbstrap, a vigorous yank will usually free the gun.

Simple thumb strap holsters are rarely used by uniformed officers in agencies with high levels of contact with suspects because of the danger they represent. You'll see things like hoods, shield, and hidden levers, but rarely thumbstraps except for nonuniformed or administrative personnel and the occasional old timer who's still carrying a revolver. Level 3 (2 active retention devices) was my standard choice for uniformed duty.

The retention mechanisms in the original list are relatively intuitive in that they are placed in positions that are readily activated by the person wearing the holster and both less obvious and more difficult to release by someone else. They are specifically designed to not be obvious, although if an opportunity is given for a close look it will often reveal where they are. However, even if they are correctly identified by an adversary, they are designed to be difficult for anyone but the wearer to actually remove the gun.

I provided the original list and requested folks stick to the retention definition I outlined in order to provide a resource for those who recognize the hazards involved in gun grabs and want equipment that is well designed to make them significantly more difficult. When open carry becomes legal, folks can of course carry holsters with simple thumbstraps for retention. If they choose to do so, I sincerely hope that they make that decision with full knowledge of the drawbacks and that they invest in a good hands on weapon retention course (which is a great investment for anyone) to learn how to defend it.
by Excaliber
Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:05 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry
Replies: 82
Views: 17978

Re: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry

tlt wrote:This is a decent one, quite comfortable. I like the suede liner option. Not real practical for concealed, but can be done.

http://www.kirkpatrickleather.com/conce ... llenger-79

The company has a few other options available as well. It takes time but worth the wait.
The thumb strap makes this a level 2 retention holster in the technical sense and it does help to keep the gun from falling out of the holster, but it does very little to inhibit an active gun grab attempt. Comp-Tac makes several models of very fine holsters too, but none of them are designed or advertised as retention holsters.

This thread was not intended to become a list of nice concealed carry holsters. It was to provide a resource for holsters with active retention mechanisms that are designed to delay or defeat a gun grab attempt, since that will be an increased hazard when open carry begins. In order to preserve this purpose, I ask that contributors only post additional models that meet the "active mechanism designed to delay or defeat a gun grab attempt" and that are advertised by the manufacturers as retention designs.

Thanks for your cooperation!
by Excaliber
Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:46 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry
Replies: 82
Views: 17978

Re: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry

AJSully421 wrote:If you like the safariland 6xxx series... you should try their 7ts 7xxx series. I have replaced out everything that I can with the 7ts stuff.
Added to the list.
by Excaliber
Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:53 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry
Replies: 82
Views: 17978

Retention Holsters for Concealed or Open Carry

Manufacturers have been busy churning out holsters with retention features that are suitable for concealed or open carry. Here are a few that may be of interest to some, particularly those who plan to start open carrying in January:

Hogue ARS Stage One
Galco M4X
Galco M6X
BlackHawk GripBreak
Bianchi Evader
DeSantis Facilitator
DeSantis Quick Safe
DeSantis Prowler
Safariland 578 ProFit
Safariland 6378 ALS
Safariland 7378 7TS

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