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Rule #4 on this forum deals with the promotion of illegal activity. I try to live by its opposite - the promotion of legal activity.. I'm fine with "don't ask, don't tell" in places with non-compliant signs. I realize that I'm under no obligation to verify the existence of signs prohibiting or limiting carry but I usually do try. Others share that viewpoint.

But the real issue here was not that. The fellow on the other forum was going to continue his inquiry. My chances of dissuading him from that inquiry were far less than my chance of getting him to accept a definitive answer if I could produce one. How real the possibility of a new sign being posted as a result of him pressing the issue with Three Forks management I cannot determine. But, again, I felt the obligation to try to prevent that possibility. I stand by trying to do that just as I stand by trying to put myself, and others that I can help, in the position of staying within the law, whether I agree with that law or not. Others are free to make their own choices.

TVGuy wrote:

chasfm11 wrote: The person who answered the phone freaked out over being asked about a gun policy.

I do not accept, as the fellow calling Three Forks did not accept the certainty that Three Forks is NOT posted, based on the fact that they are a high end restaurant, especially with the initial phone response.

The vast majority of the time the person answering the phone is a hostess. Almost every hostess at a restaurant is 16-17 years old since you have to be 18 to serve alcohol. I'd imagine most 17 year old girls in urban areas would act strange if you asked about carrying a gun in their place of business.

So the solution is for the fellow who was asking to simply show up at Three Forks carrying and hope for the best? Why would a high end place like Three Forks employ the same level of hostess as Chili's? As I said earlier, I don't spend much time in high end restaurants but the few that I have been in have had male hosts who were clearly over 21. I don't agree with calling any place to ask about gun policy but hopefully the staff is trained well enough to professionally pass along questions that they don't feel comfortable with to their management. I would expect that of any place that deals with the public.

TVGuy wrote: Most medical facilities are posted. Most colleges that are private have opted-out. The zoos in DFW are anti-gun. What in the world does that have to do with a restaurant? I'm not planning on an expensive meal at any of these. This is the equivalent of saying thugs shoot people, so anyone that carries a gun must be bad. It is projection and nonsense. If you could rationally explain to me how a zoo is "elitist" I'll be blown away. They sure don't smell elitist. Last time I went it wasn't that expensive and all walks of life were there. Anti-2A, sure..."elitist", no.

Go around and pick out some high-end restaurants (not chains) that are posting and report back. I'm yet to see many at all and I can't think of one off the top of my head. I've OC'd in some and have never heard a word.

I stand by my original statement until you can show me otherwise. Just because something is upscale, pricey, or expensive doesn't mean that the people that own or run it have an elitist attitude and are anti-2A.

Are people with wealth not allowed to be pro-2A gun owners? Most of the ones I know are very 2A friendly, even the Democrats frankly. Not too long ago I was on a friend's private plane. He has more money than I could imagine having without winning Powerball. He had a handgun on his hip and one in his carry on. Even asked me if I was carrying - in a positive way. He's very pro-2A. Should I have looked for a 30.06/07 sign on his home and plane?

believe that he was going with a group and riding with someone else. The next fact is that he called over to Three Forks to asked about their gun policy. He had checked Texas3006 and there was no entry. The person who answered the phone freaked out over being asked about a gun policy. He was going to call the Three Forks management when I requested that he not do that and asked for time to see if there was a different way to find the information. I posted here, asking if anyone had been there recently.

I do not accept, as the fellow calling Three Forks did not accept the certainty that Three Forks is NOT posted, based on the fact that they are a high end restaurant, especially with the initial phone response. If I were personally driving there and had my own car, I'd never give the matter a second though. If they had an 06 sign, I'd disarm or I won't go in. But I don't blame him for not wanting to put himself into an awkward situation. As we have discussed here on past threads, I also don't advocate asking gun policy questions over the phone. It wasn't practical for him to run over in advance to double check.

I probably crossed a line that I shouldn't have when I injected my own opinion that there is an Elitist mentality which can drive signs. I have no way of knowing what Three Forks or any other restaurant is thinking when they do or do not put up signs, just like I have no way of knowing whether the management is pro or anti 2nd Amendment. This thread was supposed to be about whether or not they had a sign and nothing more. I reported back to the original guy about the June report of no signs. I believe that he is going there tonight. I'm glad that I stopped him from querying management before he did. We can save the discussion about what drives businesses to put up signs for a different day.

My mission was accomplished. I'm satisfied. It the situation turns out different that I represented and the guy gets put in a compromised situation because of it, that was the risk that I took.

TVGuy wrote: I think you would find that high end restaurants have clientele that are more likely to carry than your average citizen of Texas, especially of people in urban areas. For example, Highland Park which is arguably the most elite of DFW neighborhoods, would be the amongst the most conservative in the area. The elitism you describe is primarily "coastal elitism", or that of wealthy transplants from the northeast or west coasts. Undoubtedly, an upscale kale restaurant would be banned, but not a steak restaurant. I eat at very expensive restaurants on a normal basis for work and I would say that they seem to be posted much less often than average. It's usually the chains, regardless of price, that are posted.

I beg to differ. Some businesses and pretty much all of the Texas medical establishment are Elitist. Baylor, Harris Methodist are almost universally posted, even some of the small store front clinic type locations. If they didn't allow doctors to carry either, I won't be quite as harsh. But they are just like the politicians - good for me and not for thee. We've seen some roaring examples of Elitist behavior among the UT professors and i personally observed at UT Arlington. It seems reasonable then, that high end restaurants, who often cater to that same type of clientele, could do the same thing. Those with personal relationships with the restaurant management get the wink wink on concealed carry while the rest of us get to read the sign. And I would be remiss if I didn't leave out the Ft. Worth and Dallas Zoos. There is hardly another plausible explanation for the lengths that they have gone to besides Elitism.

I don't at all discount the fact that the big ugly sign is a deterrent to posting a location. A place like Three Forks doesn't want to detract from their entrance with a pair of them for 06, 07. But I would bet that you don't get 10 steps inside the door OC and may get told "we don't allow guns" in the process. I'm not saying that they don't have the right to do exactly that. I'm just suggesting that the mentality to restrict citizen carry is not limited to the blue coasts. As I said in an earlier post, many of the restaurants in our area our 30.07 posted and almost none are 30.06 posted. We have a few high end places but most are average joe kind of eateries. They aren't anxious to scare grandma because of a 1911 visible on someone's hip at the next table but they don't seem anxious to drive of law abiding 2nd amendment advocates either.

TVGuy wrote:#1 - I'm not sure why someone would expect them to be posted. There are a number of similar upscale restaurants in DFW and I don't recall any of them being posted.

#2- I can't fathom any reason why someone would call any business and inquire if they are posted or not, this just seems so counterintuitive. You're asking for a sign to be put up when there wasn't one to begin with.

In the scenario that I suggested, where you are riding with others (and therefore don't have a car to return to if there is a sign) and among a group of people where you don't wish to disclose your LTC, it makes sense to try to find out in advance. Just because Texas3006 does not show a sign doesn't mean that there isn't one, even in an upscale place. People think of Whole Foods as upscale, too, and they are all posted.

I jumped in for just the reason that you mentioned - I didn't want a sign to appear where there wasn't one. I happen to believe that one of the driving forces behind 30.06 signs is a feeling of Elitism. That certainly can happen at any place that considers themselves upscale.

RPBrown wrote:We went in June for a quiet birthday dinner for my wife. I did not see any signs then but that was 2 months ago.

Thanks. That is what I was looking for - first hand experience. I doubt that things have changed and have sent your information to the fellow asking the question.

Bitter Clinger wrote:
We shop at Central Market where we can carry. Buy a nice steak, eat at home with better wine at 1/10 the cost. You are welcome to join us anytime!

As I said in my OP, I'm not a Three Forks kinda guy. Someone posted about it on another forum that I belong to and I jumped in when he said that he was going to contact Three Forks management. I'm with you. I buy my steaks and grill them myself. I gather this guy is going with a group and he may not be paying. That puts a different look on things.

Liberty wrote:I eat out a lot, around the Houston - Galveston and in the Hill Country area. At lots of fine dining places, and greasy spoons also. I've never seen a 30.0x sighn at an eating establishment. Is it common to see anti-gun restaurants in the Dallas area, or is there something special about Three Forks that one would find it gun unfriendly?

Maybe. Someone I know called over there to ask about the gun policy. The person who answered the phone and took the question apparently freaked out over the question being asked. At a minimum, that suggests to me that no one has shown up OC there. His question was: are there signs posted which prohibit open or concealed carry. While I don't expect every young hostess to be well versed on gun policy, if they stand at the door daily and there is a sign, I would have expected them to remember it and have a hint about why it is there. That suggests to me that there are no signs.

His plan was to pursuit the matter with Three Forks management. I suggested that he not do that. At this point, they have a gun policy and it is evident on their doors, whether it was arrived at consciously or by default. Those who get there by default may not know that is what happened to them and I prefer to allow them to continue not knowing.

As you say, it may be a Dallas area thing but many of our local eateries have valid 30.07 signs. I've added a number of them to the 30.07 data base myself. If there are 30.06 posted restaurants, there are very few and I don't remember one after Appleby's here went out of business. I cannot imagine a place like Three Forks wanting to have signs on the entrance. I was just trying to find out if anyone knew for sure, one way or the other.

The guy who asked the question may be attending Three Forks with a group and may not be driving. Sometimes, it is not just inconvenient to disarm at the last minute, it is nearly impossible without generating discussion that you may not want. I love Texas3006 for that reason and do everything that I can to help it keep updated. This is just one of those cases.

Three Forks restaurant in Dallas does not show up in Texas3006.com. I cannot imagine a place like that not at least posting a 30.07 sign. Someone I know called them about their gun policy and apparently the 18 yr old hostess who answered the phone freaked out. I've recommended that asking questions might get signs posted that none of us want.

That establishment is a little outside of my normal price range so haven't been there personally. Has anyone gone there recently who can confirm that there are no signs?