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NathanJK wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 1:21 pm All of that glosses over the meat of the subject. Wayne makes millions of dollars every year working for a “non-profit” using members dues. Then we find out he’s blowing 280 grand on clothes on rodeo drive, putting an intern up in a rented apartment and jetting all over using up even more money? If things were great maybe it’d be no big deal, but this is the guy who didn’t even try to fight the bumpstock deal, supports red flag laws, and hasn’t gotten the ball into the end zone on the HPA. Let’s not even get into the 24 or whatever it is million dollars to the law firm, I’m sure it’s TOTALLY on the up and up to pay them 100k a day. It’s so legitimate some board member or Oliver North himself had to leak their concerns.

It’s sickening that you publicly commented on this issue to the news. It’s got thug written all over it, and you are over there just polishing away. You and Wayne should both be ousted.

To accuse Charles of thug tactics like you are shows you are not fully aware of the work that man has done for gun rights. In the last ten years he has achieved more for advancing second amendment issues than many people will achieve in the same field over a lifetime. He has put his own personal reputation and finances on the line to advance our cause and here you are mad that he is essentially asking people to stop the infighting and get back to protecting our rights? Based on the latest nonsense in the media and in public the NRA doesn't need to worry about gun grabbers and New York attorney's destroying it, it needs to worry about the all or nothing crowd along with the people that claim to support gun rights while pushing the "NAGR, GOA, and even mad mommies but NEVER NRA!!!!!!!" agenda.

G.A. Heath wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 6:05 pm
To accuse Charles of thug tactics like you are shows you are not fully aware of the work that man has done for gun rights. In the last ten years he has achieved more for advancing second amendment issues than many people will achieve in the same field over a lifetime.

Of course. But I think what he's reacting to, and other people are reacting to, is not just specifically what Charles said, but the general absence of justification or ameliorating evidence for what's been reported. Charles, Marion, et. al. have said it's all been carefully vetted and audited, that it's "not correct." Ok, fine. But, then, what are you saying exactly? Don't stop there (unless you're forced to for political expedience). Are you saying he DIDN'T spend $39,000 on a Rodeo Drive shopping trip? That he DIDN'T make trips to the Bahamas, Palm Beach, Italy, Istanbul, etc.? If this isn't "correct," then what IS correct? Don't leave us sitting here scratching our heads, wondering what the truth is.

Ruark wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 8:40 pm

G.A. Heath wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 6:05 pm
To accuse Charles of thug tactics like you are shows you are not fully aware of the work that man has done for gun rights. In the last ten years he has achieved more for advancing second amendment issues than many people will achieve in the same field over a lifetime.

Of course. But I think what he's reacting to, and other people are reacting to, is not just specifically what Charles said, but the general absence of justification or ameliorating evidence for what's been reported. Charles, Marion, et. al. have said it's all been carefully vetted and audited, that it's "not correct." Ok, fine. But, then, what are you saying exactly? Don't stop there (unless you're forced to for political expedience). Are you saying he DIDN'T spend $39,000 on a Rodeo Drive shopping trip? That he DIDN'T make trips to the Bahamas, Palm Beach, Italy, Istanbul, etc.? If this isn't "correct," then what IS correct? Don't leave us sitting here scratching our heads, wondering what the truth is.

He can not release facts while a lawsuit is going on. You will just have to wait. Until then,we need to refrain from tearing down the organization anti-gunners fear the most. Now is the time to build it stronger than ever.

nobius wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 4:30 pm Why is the NRA leadership even going to those places? I was very bothered by that report. And a reply from leadership complaining about leaks only proves it's true.

I’m a life NRA member, but they won’t get another dime out of me until this is resolved.

I'm in the same boat.

F350-6 wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 8:53 pm

nobius wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 4:30 pm Why is the NRA leadership even going to those places? I was very bothered by that report. And a reply from leadership complaining about leaks only proves it's true.

I’m a life NRA member, but they won’t get another dime out of me until this is resolved.

I'm in the same boat.

I am a life benefactor member and I gave them some more money last week. We have to stick together.

eyedoc wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 9:03 pm

F350-6 wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 8:53 pm

nobius wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 4:30 pm Why is the NRA leadership even going to those places? I was very bothered by that report. And a reply from leadership complaining about leaks only proves it's true.

I’m a life NRA member, but they won’t get another dime out of me until this is resolved.

I'm in the same boat.

I am a life benefactor member and I gave them some more money last week. We have to stick together.

Life memeber and signing up my family members.

oljames3 wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 10:38 pm

eyedoc wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 9:03 pm

F350-6 wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 8:53 pm

nobius wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 4:30 pm Why is the NRA leadership even going to those places? I was very bothered by that report. And a reply from leadership complaining about leaks only proves it's true.

I’m a life NRA member, but they won’t get another dime out of me until this is resolved.

I'm in the same boat.

I am a life benefactor member and I gave them some more money last week. We have to stick together.

Life memeber and signing up my family members.

I gave my son a life membership too.

Lynyrd wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote: When deciding who is telling the truth, don't let a public persona deceive you as to a person's true motive.

Chas.

Wise words Mr. Cotton. Many a public persona has hidden nefarious motives.

That's golden advice when looking at both sides of this story. Or any narrative.

Ignore the ad hominem and other fallacies of irrelevance. Focus on the facts rather than the person. Is the argument constructed logically? What data is presented to support the argument? Are the data verifiable?

G.A. Heath wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 6:05 pm

NathanJK wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 1:21 pm All of that glosses over the meat of the subject. Wayne makes millions of dollars every year working for a “non-profit” using members dues. Then we find out he’s blowing 280 grand on clothes on rodeo drive, putting an intern up in a rented apartment and jetting all over using up even more money? If things were great maybe it’d be no big deal, but this is the guy who didn’t even try to fight the bumpstock deal, supports red flag laws, and hasn’t gotten the ball into the end zone on the HPA. Let’s not even get into the 24 or whatever it is million dollars to the law firm, I’m sure it’s TOTALLY on the up and up to pay them 100k a day. It’s so legitimate some board member or Oliver North himself had to leak their concerns.

It’s sickening that you publicly commented on this issue to the news. It’s got thug written all over it, and you are over there just polishing away. You and Wayne should both be ousted.

To accuse Charles of thug tactics like you are shows you are not fully aware of the work that man has done for gun rights. In the last ten years he has achieved more for advancing second amendment issues than many people will achieve in the same field over a lifetime. He has put his own personal reputation and finances on the line to advance our cause and here you are mad that he is essentially asking people to stop the infighting and get back to protecting our rights? Based on the latest nonsense in the media and in public the NRA doesn't need to worry about gun grabbers and New York attorney's destroying it, it needs to worry about the all or nothing crowd along with the people that claim to support gun rights while pushing the "NAGR, GOA, and even mad mommies but NEVER NRA!!!!!!!" agenda.

I’m aware of his efforts and I’m aware that I’ve personally benefited from them. Those past “rights” don’t fix this wrong. It’s a new day, with a huge mistake. He could have just said “I have no comment at this time” and been done. Now, he looks like he’s helping Wayne be a very well compensated, grade a dirt ball.

I have been thinking about this situation and would like to share a few thoughts.

Maybe we should look at the situation with the NRA as being similar to a person with a diagnosis of possible cancer. Do we just euthanize them because they MIGHT have something wrong going on inside them? What about even if the NRA does have some problems? That would be like a person having cancer. Do you kill them, or do you try to remove the cancer and cure them?

I have not agreed with everything the NRA has done, but on the whole, they have helped protect all of us gun owners' right to own modern firearms. Anti-gunners hate and fear the NRA the most. We must do all we can to preserve and strengthen it. The loss of the NRA will set the ant-gunners upon our freedoms like sharks in a feeding frenzy. We can not let that happen.

I realize there are other groups, and I belong to several. For example, I am also a life member in the GOA and am a member of DRGO. I urge everyone to don't turn on the NRA. Wait and see what is going on and let's all do what we can to make it stronger than ever. Support the other groups too, but do not abandon the NRA. We need all the power and influence that we can get in order to insure our freedoms for a while longer. The fight to preserve them will never end.

NathanJK wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:25 am I’m aware of his efforts and I’m aware that I’ve personally benefited from them. Those past “rights” don’t fix this wrong. It’s a new day, with a huge mistake. He could have just said “I have no comment at this time” and been done. Now, he looks like he’s helping Wayne be a very well compensated, grade a dirt ball.

You are making decisions and accusations based on documents leaked by parties that had a reason to go outside the system, however the other side is not in a position to speak out because they are defending themselves in a lawsuit by parties that wish to destroy them. Consider the leaked documents, and now consider what could potentially be in the documents that were not leaked. Those documents could support the ones that were leaked, or they could invalidate the leaked documents. We simply don't know.

Col. North used a tactic that allowed WLP to accuse him of attempting extortion, and irregardless of the reason those tactics were wrong and potentially illegal. These documents were seemingly leaked to support those tactics, perhaps everyone had good reasons for doing so but in my opinion this looks too much like a power play attempt to take over the NRA to simply pick a side and run with it.

<Party 'A'> You need to step down and give me control or I'm going to put out this document given to me by Party 'C' which will destroy you.
<'Party 'B'> Not happening, you're document is fake.
<Party 'A'> You're lying and even if your not you can't prove it without hurting yourself even worse.

What does the above represent? A Mob boss trying to take over a business or Col. North talking to WLP? Could go either way. Now, about those thug tactics...

According to the NRA's own marketing, "I" am the NRA, not Wayne LaPierre, not Chris Cox, not any of various paid positions or any of the board members.

Without the members, the NRA is worthless. We are who the left really fears, not Mr. LaPierre, not Mr. Cox, not Mr. Cotton. It's OUR votes, our money, our influence that the left really wants to shut down.

If the documents leaked by AMc are accurate, Mr. LaPierre's spending on clothing and jet set lifestyle is troubling. I cannot imagine a legitimate reason for the NRA's top executive to spend that kind of money on clothing, jets to foreign countries, etc.

But I can wait for the lawsuits/etc to sort out and hope that the Board at some point can release all the information necessary to assuage the concerns of the members.

bblhd672 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 12:27 pm But I can wait for the lawsuits/etc to sort out and hope that the Board at some point can release all the information necessary to assuage the concerns of the members.

And that is what we should do. Wait and see what the truth is. If there is a problem, then we can fix it without killing the patient.

eyedoc wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 12:29 pm

bblhd672 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 12:27 pm But I can wait for the lawsuits/etc to sort out and hope that the Board at some point can release all the information necessary to assuage the concerns of the members.

And that is what we should do. Wait and see what the truth is. If there is a problem, then we can fix it without killing the patient.

Only screaming left wing libtards proclaim "guilty until proven innocent". Allegations are simply accusations until proven. Slander, libel and defamation, being essentially protected by the 1stA, have become weaponized in today's social media mania environment.

NathanJK wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:25 am

G.A. Heath wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 6:05 pm

NathanJK wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 1:21 pm All of that glosses over the meat of the subject. Wayne makes millions of dollars every year working for a “non-profit” using members dues. Then we find out he’s blowing 280 grand on clothes on rodeo drive, putting an intern up in a rented apartment and jetting all over using up even more money? If things were great maybe it’d be no big deal, but this is the guy who didn’t even try to fight the bumpstock deal, supports red flag laws, and hasn’t gotten the ball into the end zone on the HPA. Let’s not even get into the 24 or whatever it is million dollars to the law firm, I’m sure it’s TOTALLY on the up and up to pay them 100k a day. It’s so legitimate some board member or Oliver North himself had to leak their concerns.

It’s sickening that you publicly commented on this issue to the news. It’s got thug written all over it, and you are over there just polishing away. You and Wayne should both be ousted.

To accuse Charles of thug tactics like you are shows you are not fully aware of the work that man has done for gun rights. In the last ten years he has achieved more for advancing second amendment issues than many people will achieve in the same field over a lifetime. He has put his own personal reputation and finances on the line to advance our cause and here you are mad that he is essentially asking people to stop the infighting and get back to protecting our rights? Based on the latest nonsense in the media and in public the NRA doesn't need to worry about gun grabbers and New York attorney's destroying it, it needs to worry about the all or nothing crowd along with the people that claim to support gun rights while pushing the "NAGR, GOA, and even mad mommies but NEVER NRA!!!!!!!" agenda.

I’m aware of his efforts and I’m aware that I’ve personally benefited from them. Those past “rights” don’t fix this wrong. It’s a new day, with a huge mistake. He could have just said “I have no comment at this time” and been done. Now, he looks like he’s helping Wayne be a very well compensated, grade a dirt ball.

I hope that someday you are held to your own standard; i.e. guilty because of mere allegations made by people with their own agenda.

Now show us which statement I made that you claim is false. Do that, or don't post again.

Chas.