Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

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easy10
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#136

Post by easy10 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:59 am

Michael Bloomberg wants you to believe that gun control is about saving lives, but when a civilian uses his gun to save over 200 people's lives, he doesn’t talk about the lives saved, nor does he congratulate the person who saved those lives.

Instead, he talks about how those people shouldn’t have had those guns because the only people responsible enough to make a decision about saving your life are the cops.

So essentially, our control over those 200 plus lives is more important than your ability to save those same lives. So to Bloomberg, if you use your gun to save lives, he doesn’t care because you’re not a cop.
[/quote]

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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#137

Post by Liberty » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:27 am

anygunanywhere wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:15 am
Mel wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:50 pm
anygunanywhere wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:14 pm
Grayling813 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:59 pm
Our justice system is seriously screwed up, which is another reason to never, ever let the government take away law abiding citizens firearms. :mad5 :banghead:
It’s a legal system not a justice system.
Actually it IS a justice system. The name is "The Criminal Justice System".
Actually it isn't about justice any more. It is about privileged classes and money. I stand by my post.

:tiphat:
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Keith B
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#138

Post by Keith B » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:36 pm

AUSTIN, Texas (KEYE) - Governor Greg Abbott will present the Governor's Medal of Courage to the man who stopped a gunman in a deadly shooting at a church in North Texas last month.


http://cbsaustin.com/news/local/gov-abb ... rch-gunman
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#139

Post by LDP » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:01 pm

:cheers2:

Now, did they make him drive 3 hours to libtardville or did they send the governor's King Air to FTW? :)
Another important question: did/will they let him carry into the "mansion"?

I will make sure to watch the news tonight. Want to see whether any of the libtard stations tell the truth or whether they will even mention this "senseless murder of an innocent criminal".

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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#140

Post by Paladin » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:42 pm

Keith B wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:36 pm
AUSTIN, Texas (KEYE) - Governor Greg Abbott will present the Governor's Medal of Courage to the man who stopped a gunman in a deadly shooting at a church in North Texas last month.


http://cbsaustin.com/news/local/gov-abb ... rch-gunman
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#141

Post by ELB » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:30 pm

USAF 1982-2005
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“The only thing more enjoyable than seeing your opponent lose an election they rigged is seeing them lose an investigation they rigged.” Author unknown but dead on the mark.

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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#142

Post by oljames3 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:26 pm

:thewave
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#143

Post by LDP » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:27 pm

5 people clapping in that picture. They were probably required to be there to make it appear like a crowd.
It wouldn't surprise me if none of Austinites (Californians) showed up because that man is a cold-blooded killer who murdered an innocent criminal.

Did anybody watch the news last night? My buddy had car trouble last night so I spent the whole evening in his garage. (with beer and cigars so I didn't mind)

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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#144

Post by ELB » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:09 pm

CBS had a video report on it. I don't know if it ran in prime time news, I do not watch network tv, but it appears it ran live initially.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-chur ... 020-01-13/
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#145

Post by JustSomeOldGuy » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:04 pm

re: 'Hock's analysis.
Was it the best solution? No. Was it the best acceptable solution given that the average church has 1) no money to hire secret service level talent and 2) probably doesn't have secret service level talent among the congregation? Absolutely, especially when the alternative is a Luby's Cafeteria style debacle. And given that the mission of the average church is NOT to "bounce someone's <posterior> to the moon".

Hock, my personal opinion is that you're a jerk. You're comparing apples and oranges.......
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#146

Post by Rob72 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:18 pm

JustSomeOldGuy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:04 pm
And given that the mission of the average church is NOT to "bounce someone's <posterior> to the moon".

Hock, my personal opinion is that you're a jerk. You're comparing apples and oranges.......
Apples to apples. It is not the Church's mission to do so, it is the mission of those assuming the RESPONSIBILITY for the safety of those wishing to lose themselves in praise and worship.

The main reason I disagree with Grossman's "Sheepdog" concept is that I have found it untrue, both personally, and in context of human growth and development. Humans are hunters or the hunted. You hunt for your tribe, you hunt members of other tribes, or you are generally oblivious to the overall conflict.

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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#147

Post by ELB » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:21 pm

Some of Hockheim's technical points about conducting security "professionally" are good. Stuff to study when making a security plan.

He completely misses the point that volunteer security teams are in place because the "professionals" are a big drain on the budget of smaller churches. That's why they are "volunteers." It is also expensive in time and money, both of which come out of the pocket of the volunteers. The choice for the church is not between a bunch of amateurs or a professionally trained, years-of-experience, federally-salaried and -pensioned security team with an essentially unlimited budget capable of protecting the president. It is a choice between "nobody" and having a team of those willing to step up, a choice that became legal only a few months ago.

Hockheim's criticizing Jack Wilson and the team in general for stepping up fulfilling their volunteer duties as best they could given the constraints they have is absolutely loathsome and shows Hockheim himself to be an.... let's just say, for the sake of this forum's rules, "unprofessional." I don't think anyone (and I'll bet least of all the vol security team) is disregarding the errors and the missed opportunities by the volunteer security team, but that does not detract from their heroism. Absent that volunteer security team, no doubt the death toll was going to be higher.

I eagerly await his offer to provide volunteer church security teams free training. Oh, but he wants to be paid for his time. Ah.

(And given the antics of the Secret Service over the years, I would hardly hold them up as an example of how to do things).
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#148

Post by Paladin » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:03 pm

ELB wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:21 pm
Some of Hockheim's technical points about conducting security "professionally" are good. Stuff to study when making a security plan.

He completely misses the point that volunteer security teams are in place because the "professionals" are a big drain on the budget of smaller churches. That's why they are "volunteers." It is also expensive in time and money, both of which come out of the pocket of the volunteers. The choice for the church is not between a bunch of amateurs or a professionally trained, years-of-experience, federally-salaried and -pensioned security team with an essentially unlimited budget capable of protecting the president. It is a choice between "nobody" and having a team of those willing to step up, a choice that became legal only a few months ago.

Hockheim's criticizing Jack Wilson and the team in general for stepping up fulfilling their volunteer duties as best they could given the constraints they have is absolutely loathsome and shows Hockheim himself to be an.... let's just say, for the sake of this forum's rules, "unprofessional." I don't think anyone (and I'll bet least of all the vol security team) is disregarding the errors and the missed opportunities by the volunteer security team, but that does not detract from their heroism. Absent that volunteer security team, no doubt the death toll was going to be higher.

I eagerly await his offer to provide volunteer church security teams free training. Oh, but he wants to be paid for his time. Ah.

(And given the antics of the Secret Service over the years, I would hardly hold them up as an example of how to do things).
:iagree:

Everybody would love to have the Secret Service or Delta force protecting them, but honestly the volunteer security team did an acceptable job and Jack Wilson made a great shot to end the fight. Responding LEO's have too often done worse (being slow to respond, getting themselves killed, or shooting the wrong person). I'm guessing from Hockheim's article that he never actually responded to an active shooting so he might not be all that familiar.
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#149

Post by Keith B » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:49 pm

We all know it’s easy to armchair quarterback after an event and point out mistakes made. You could more than likely do that to one of Hockheim’s encounters. It is VERY easy for someone who spent a career doing security to point out errors, especially as said, this is a volunteer group of church members, not Seal Team Six.

That said, the only really critical mistake I believe was made was to allow the guy, dressed like he was, to be in with the congregation. They should have separated him and tried to make sure he was innocuous before letting him into the crowd.

BUT (BIG BUT), that is a tough task, even for experienced security personnel. They knew who he was, and since he had been there before, kinda let their guard down some and let him mingle, even in his state of dress.

Bottom line, once it started, I don’t think it could have been handled much better, even by a team of ‘professionals’.
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#150

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:06 pm

JustSomeOldGuy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:04 pm
re: 'Hock's analysis.
Was it the best solution? No. Was it the best acceptable solution given that the average church has 1) no money to hire secret service level talent and 2) probably doesn't have secret service level talent among the congregation? Absolutely, especially when the alternative is a Luby's Cafeteria style debacle. And given that the mission of the average church is NOT to "bounce someone's <posterior> to the moon".

Hock, my personal opinion is that you're a jerk. You're comparing apples and oranges.......
Bingo. A church service is NOT a multi-layered super secret service SWAT protected event. It just isn’t, and if a church's leadership tried to make it that way, I’d worship elsewhere. Yes, churches need security teams, and the bigger the church and the more complicated it’s operations, the more complicated the security posture needs to be. But balanced against that is whether or not you are losing sight of the church's mission - which is the Great Commission. If you lose sight of that, your in a misled church. And part of the Great Commission is making sure that the spiritually hungry can enter and and be fed from The Word.

Anyone who has volunteered extensively at a church has experienced the rootless and the weird wandering in looking for a handout. It’s a fact of church life, and if you harden yourself against the possibility, then you fail in your mission.
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