Tacoma OIS: 183 yards

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Paladin
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Tacoma OIS: 183 yards

#1

Post by Paladin »

WARNING VIOLENCE

You don't see this kind of shootout every day:

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OneGun
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Re: Tacoma OIS: 183 yards

#2

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Has BLM started the normal riots and looting yet? The Audacity of the police to return fire when being fired upon!
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Rafe
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Re: Tacoma OIS: 183 yards

#3

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Seems like one good example of needing 5.56 carbines in patrol vehicles. And Officer Munn's body cam was interesting. He pulled up to a shots-fired-from-long-gun situation evidently calmly sipping his Diet Coke. Puts the SUV in park, places his Diet Coke cup on the dash, then opens the tailgate and removes his carbine. He then braces against the SUV's rear fender, takes one 183-yard shot, and drops the suspect who's been spraying rounds all over the neighborhood.

But, yeah. We had a brief discussion in another thread here about the merit or lack thereof of patrol officers having a long-gun. The distances are skewed from these body cam clips, but it looks to me like the perp may well have continued until he carjacked and/or killed someone, and the situation seemed to make it essentially impossible for the officers to make effective use of handguns; maybe a shotgun with slugs, but those windows of opportunity were very brief. Can't make a precise 183-yard shot without a decent rifle.
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Re: Tacoma OIS: 183 yards

#4

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There was an officer in Uvalde with a rifle who did not take the shot indicating he was uncomfortable with his skills taking the shot with children in the background. As I remember it was a shorter distance than 183 yards. I don't think Patrol Rifle training includes standard distances trained in the Army.
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Re: Tacoma OIS: 183 yards

#5

Post by srothstein »

This is an interesting case. I believe it shows the problem with most officers and rifles. They tend to treat it as a large pistol, instead of the precision distance weapon it is. By that, I mean they do not practice long distance shots, with 100ft being the furthest most go. They do not practice proper sighting and continue to use it while moving - much like they are taught with pistols. Officer Munn must be an experienced shot with a rifle and much more confident in his abilities.

There are several reasons for this problem, most of which is training and not refining tactics properly. Rifles started on SWAT teams and slowly expanded to patrol. A lot of the initial tactics and training came from military urban warfare training, because a SWAT team clearing a house is very similar to a military unit clearing a house. Not too many years back (probably the 90s), the average police shootout distance was 3 to 8 feet. A typical SWAT sniper shot was in the 80 to 100 foot range. The concept of police needing to shoot at a distance has not yet permeated most departments (despite the need for long distance training and awareness being demonstrated in the ambush of officers in Pleasanton in 1999).

And one of my arguments against rifles for patrol was shown in this video too. When all we had were pistols and shotguns, officers would have positioned themselves much closer to the suspect's house than they did. They know pistols work and how to make it work when they are close up, like the edge of the property. They know rifles work from further away and it makes them safer to stay further away (most criminals are very poor shots so distance is the officer's friend). My argument fails when we develop better tactics and shooting ability in general patrolmen.
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