El Paso: Shooting inside restaurant

[Carry-a-Kimber]

The way I read the story, the firefighter took possestion of the firearm after a strugggle between the shooter and the arrested parties. He could have snagged it from one of them for all we know.

[VoiceofReason]

One of the takeaways from this incident is that just because you are a CHL holder and consider yourself a GG does not mean you will be viewed that way by others as dangerous. When you use your weapon, there are no flashing signs that indicate you're a GG. For all the other witnesses know, you may be a BG, and they may treat you as such.

Then the healthiest thing for them to do is be witnesses and not try to be law enforcement.

[karder]

This story has gotten a lot of attention down here. I know a reporter from the ABC affiliate who covered the story and he gave me the inside scoop.
The restaurant in question is in the northeast part of town, which is largely made up of military retirement folks, but, like all parts of town, has its own gang element.
At 9:30am, the restaurant was full of the grandpa/grandmas getting the breakfast specials when a group of four gangster types came in and started trying to shake everyone down. One of the gangsters took a fork off a table started threatening a group of diners. A second member of the group of troublemakers took a knife off a table and went over to the shooters table and started threatening him. The shooter, who was a CHL, pulled a .22lr pistol and told the guy to back off. Instead of backing off, the rest of the group came over and tried to intimidate him. At that point, the shooter fired one round, which went through the BG's eye and out the back of his head. The BG dropped and his buddies took off running.
An off duty firefighter came over and rendered first-aid until EMS arrived and he also secured the weapon from the shooter.
Police have not filed charges against the shooter but have arrested all member of the gang who started the problem, including the ones that fled. The shooting victim is still recovering in the hospital here.
So who says .22lr won't take out 4 gang-bangers?

[wally775]

Thank you for the on location information.

That sounds logical and probable.

[Purplehood]

What was she thinking?

The snappy answer is nothing (i.e., not thinking).

The smart thing to do is leave skid marks and call the cops from a safer location.

However, humans have a combination of empathy and curiosity that overrides pure rational judgment.

- Jim

Sorry, I didn't realize you meant a car. Either way it made sense to me.

An off duty firefighter came over and rendered first-aid until EMS arrived and he also secured the weapon from the shooter.

Now that makes sense assuming he was in uniform. He may have took it to avoid a ruckus and protect the shooter.

[Rex B]

I expect the shooter was a bit shaken at that point and felt relieved to have some apparent authority figure take charge.
This also has me thinking about carrying a BUG. I think I still have one empty pocket about the size of that P32

[jmorris]

One of the takeaways from this incident is that just because you are a CHL holder and consider yourself a GG does not mean you will be viewed that way by others as dangerous. When you use your weapon, there are no flashing signs that indicate you're a GG. For all the other witnesses know, you may be a BG, and they may treat you as such.

Obviously he should have been wearing his CHL badge and sash.

[Monker10]

It took me a while to find this info. But what most of the news outlets failed to mention was that the group of guys that came into the restaurant and were harassing and threading the "shooter" with a knife. He produced his firearm but the guy still continued to threaten him with the knife. At this point he fired a single shot. This is when the fireman confiscated his gun. This group of guys are being charged with counts of criminal gang activity while there is no charge on the shooter(chl holder). This seems to be a case of self defense but most of the media is twisting it to seem like the big bad chler shot an innocent youth. Lol. Maybe this group of thugs will now think twice before pulling something like that again.

This case also brings up an interesting point. What is the best method of identifying one self as one of the good guys when you do have to draw your weapon in public as to prevent confusion? Such as what happened with the fireman in this case.

[seamusTX]

What is the best method of identifying one self as one of the good guys when you do have to draw your weapon in public as to prevent confusion?

It's a quandry.

I used to think that grooming, dress, and comportment would make a difference. However, I am not so sure now.

- Jim

[sjfcontrol]

Being a white-haired old man helps. Being a white-haired old woman is even better. But neither is worth it!

[seamusTX]

Being a white-haired old man helps. Being a white-haired old woman is even better.

I'm sure it helps.

Not to put too fine point on it, if the police roll up to the reported scene of a shooting and find one person with a neat haircut (or hair style in the case of women) and neat clean clothes who looks sober, versus someone who looks like he slept in a ditch or is strung out or wearing gang colors, they probably will make up their minds quickly.

- Jim

[lonewolf]

While my hair is neatly barbered and my beard/mustache neatly groomed, I can look quite the mess after a long day's work........appearances can be very deceiving.....

[seamusTX]

...appearances can be very deceiving.....

Yeah, and slimy sociopaths can look like bankers. The BTK killer was an example of that, and there have been many others.

- Jim

[Excaliber]

It took me a while to find this info. But what most of the news outlets failed to mention was that the group of guys that came into the restaurant and were harassing and threading the "shooter" with a knife. He produced his firearm but the guy still continued to threaten him with the knife. At this point he fired a single shot. This is when the fireman confiscated his gun. This group of guys are being charged with counts of criminal gang activity while there is no charge on the shooter(chl holder). This seems to be a case of self defense but most of the media is twisting it to seem like the big bad chler shot an innocent youth. Lol. Maybe this group of thugs will now think twice before pulling something like that again.

This case also brings up an interesting point. What is the best method of identifying one self as one of the good guys when you do have to draw your weapon in public as to prevent confusion? Such as what happened with the fireman in this case.

Well, from a IFF standpoint, here are a couple of general rules that may be helpful:

1. The guy who's been quietly eating breakfast when he's suddenly confronted by a thug who is one of a group of 4 such individuals and threatens the diner with a knife is the good guy unless proven otherwise.

2. The thug with the knife doing the threatening is the bad guy.

3. The intended victim who fires a gun at the thug is still a good guy. The recently shot thug on the ground is still the bad guy.

4. Any non LEO who attempts to take the gun from a good guy should be warned off or managed as a threat. It doesn't matter if he's wearing a uniform of any type unless it's an LEO - a fireman, EMT, or UPS driver has no more authority to seize a firearm from someone else than the cook. As batman complex doesn't count.

Consider what things would look like if the fireman had placed his finger inside the trigger guard as many untrained people do and fired a shot that struck an innocent bystander. When the cops arrive, his story would be that the original good guy gave him the gun and it "went off". Good luck getting out of that one unscathed.

[lonewolf]

Agreed that any non-LEO has no business trying to disarm me. Especially since my adrenaline would be running a million miles an hour. Highest alert time for other threats, especially since there were multiple bad guys.....