OR: Man fined for doing math without a license

[Flightmare]

The problem this guy had was he called himself an engineer while doing work for the public without having a Professional Engineers license. That is a big no-no with the Engineering Board in any State.

If you practice engineering for the public, in the state of Texas (and probably every state in the union), you must has a professional engineers license. Besides having an engineering degree from an accredited university, one must pass two separate 8 hour exams and demonstrate a work history (usually at least 4 years of suitable work with references) that would support the board awarding you a P. E. license. If you work for a manufacturing facility and are only doing work at that site as an employee of that company, you don't need a license in the state of Texas.

I am an engineer with a license in 2 states. I wish all of the states would require that anyone working as an engineer in any capacity have a license. It is amazing what I have seen unlicensed engineers do over the years. If all engineers had to have a license, a number of unqualified engineers would be weeded out of the system with a resulting improvement in designs.

He was not doing work for the public. He was a private citizen filing a suit against the town because he believed the traffic light timing was wrong.

After being laughed out of City Hall, a determined Mr. Jarlstrom brought a federal lawsuit in 2014 against Beaverton, complaining that the too-short yellow lights endangered public safety. A judge dismissed the suit.

Undeterred, Mr. Jarlstrom continued his campaign, tirelessly writing to public officials, media outlets and transportation experts.

[jmorris]

In Texas, if your job title includes the word "engineer", you must have an engineering degree or your company will run afoul of the Texas Society of Professional Engineers.

I'm not surprised at Oregon, but it is not necessary in all engineering disciplines to be licensed by the state.

What of MCSE? The old acronym was "Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer"

Want to guess which state caused Microsoft to stop using the full title? Way back when NT was released one of the MCSEs involved in developing it came to Austin to do some presentations and all the advertising had MS Certified System Engineer. State Board caught wind of it and if I remember correctly it ended up in court.

[ScottDLS]

In Texas, if your job title includes the word "engineer", you must have an engineering degree or your company will run afoul of the Texas Society of Professional Engineers.

I'm not surprised at Oregon, but it is not necessary in all engineering disciplines to be licensed by the state.

What of MCSE? The old acronym was "Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer"

Want to guess which state caused Microsoft to stop using the full title? Way back when NT was released one of the MCSEs involved in developing it came to Austin to do some presentations and all the advertising had MS Certified System Engineer. State Board caught wind of it and if I remember correctly it ended up in court.

What about Railroad Locomotive "Operators" ?

Oh yeah and that's why Dr Pepper doesn't have a dot after Dr.

[LTUME1978]

Flightmare,

The work he did would fall under what the state considers doing work for the public. The only exemption that I am aware of is doing work for the company that employees you. Example. An engineer works for XYZ oil company at their refinery and does engineering work only for their employer. The engineer would not be required to have a P. E. License to do work there. Most companies will not allow employees that do not have a P. E. License to represent themselves as an engineer (i.e., can't put the title "engineer" on a business card, etc.).

twjones,

I don't disagree with you on that. For a great many years (up to 1992 if I remember correctly), the state of Texas did not require engineers to take the two 8 hour exams, etc. to get a license. All they had to do was graduate from an accredited university. Having to take those two exams weeds out a lot of folks that should not be practicing engineering (it is a lot of work and the exams are hard). Like you, I have seen people with licenses that don't do good work and people that don't have them that do excellent work. Where many get themselves in trouble is they try to do work for which they are not qualified (outside their area of expertise). The state frowns on that (even if they do have a license) and will take disciplinary if they learn of that.

Some people don't get the license because they don't do work that requires it and they don't want to go through all of the work to get one. I have never worked in a situation where I needed my license (always worked for an oil/chemical company) but it is an excellent credential to have (never know when you may get downsized and have to work in a situation that requires the license). One of my former employers wanted at least half of their engineering staff to have their license and encouraged (paid all costs) for me to get my license so I did that and have maintained it since.

[chasfm11]

In Texas, if your job title includes the word "engineer", you must have an engineering degree or your company will run afoul of the Texas Society of Professional Engineers.

I'm not surprised at Oregon, but it is not necessary in all engineering disciplines to be licensed by the state.

My job title was "audio engineer" for several years, and nobody in my department had such a degree.

And, at least last time I checked, people could be a "software engineer" without any degree at all.

IBM had (and may still have) a position called "Customer Engineer". CEs were service people who maintained the hardware on customer sites. The position was about 50 percent technical in diagnosis and repair of equipment with the rest of the responsibilities including administration and customer relations. One one of the people that I met in that roll had even an engineering degree and that one person graduated as a chemical engineer.

Since when was the Texas Society of Professional Engineers granted a patent on the term "engineer".

[oohrah]

A lot of industries, and individuals, throw around the word "engineer' pretty loosely. This what the TSPE is opposed to. They are trying to protect the brand, even though there is a lot of generic names out there - as have been listed in this thread. You can legitimately call yourself an engineer if you have an accredited engineering degree, but you cannot call yourself a PE, or licensed engineer unless you actually are licensed by your state. Without a license, you cannot legally sign off on designs that affect the public.

There are some notable exceptions. In the aerospace industry, public aircraft safety is regulated by the FAA. Aero Engineers who sign off on aircraft "safe for flight" are certified by the FAA as Designated Engineering Reps (DERS), they are not required to be licensed by the state.

You can call yourself a Sanitation Engineer, but we all know you are just the garbage man. :)

[Bitter Clinger]

There are plenty of engineers who have their P.E. who really aren't very good engineers. Likewise, there are plenty of folks who don't have their P.E. who are excellent engineers

The PE test is no more an indication of an effective problem solver than the PMP designation is for "project manglers"

While years ago the PE license meant something, nowadays I become very skeptical until I see evidence of true results. Too many folks like to pile up credentials while their true expertise barely goes beyond the creation of PowerPoint presentations.

Changing my screen name to "curdmugeon" after reading what I just posted...

[lama]

There are plenty of engineers who have their P.E. who really aren't very good engineers. Likewise, there are plenty of folks who don't have their P.E. who are excellent engineers

The PE test is no more an indication of an effective problem solver than the PMP designation is for "project manglers"

While years ago the PE license meant something, nowadays I become very skeptical until I see evidence of true results. Too many folks like to pile up credentials while their true expertise barely goes beyond the creation of PowerPoint presentations.

Changing my screen name to "curdmugeon" after reading what I just posted...

The Bitter seems well suited.

[ScottDLS]

Another licensing cartel to benefit the incumbents. There are a large number of Electrical, Mechanical, and Aerospace engineers with degrees that don't go for the PE designation that are probably significantly more competent than PE's. Maybe if you're a CE signing bridge design blueprints for the state, but really what business of the State is it to regulate titles? I remember when I started my EE studies at a public university, our dean had a 1 hour credit class which was basically encouraging us to take the PE cert. I switched to Physics, so it was moot. Luckily the State doesn't license Physicists...yet.

[treadlightly]

Last I looked, the guy that drives the train is allowed to call himself an engineer by a specific exemption in state law.

By the way, until 2010 Marine Engineers in the Royal Navy weren't called engineers, they were called artificers.

I'm not certain there is any law in Texas restricting the use of the word "artificer" but I'd still use caution. If you can't walk the silly walk, you shouldn't call yourself an artificer.

[ScottDLS]

Last I looked, the guy that drives the train is allowed to call himself an engineer by a specific exemption in state law.

By the way, until 2010 Marine Engineers in the Royal Navy weren't called engineers, they were called artificers.

I'm not certain there is any law in Texas restricting the use of the word "artificer" but I'd still use caution. If you can't walk the silly walk, you shouldn't call yourself an artificer.

In the Navy we called them Enginemen. I guess now they are Enginepersons, or Enginebeings (of indeterminate gender).


La la la....Ace is the place with the helpful hardware man (oops hardware PERSON)!

[philip964]

Texas had a profession called Interior Designer. Someone sued and the State lost. Now you can add Interior Designer to the end of your name, if you want. However you still cannot call yourself a "Licensed Interior Designer" or LID without taking a test, taking continuing education and paying the state a hundred bucks a year, oh and fingerprinting, you got to be fingerprinted.

[Dave2]

Texas had a profession called Interior Designer. Someone sued and the State lost. Now you can add Interior Designer to the end of your name, if you want. However you still cannot call yourself a "Licensed Interior Designer" or LID without taking a test, taking continuing education and paying the state a hundred bucks a year, oh and fingerprinting, you got to be fingerprinted.

You have got to be kidding... You need to be fingerprinted?!? That's some California-level stupidity right there.

[WTR]

I wish Texas would require a license for General Contractors similar to NM. Im tired of competing with tailgate contractors who carry no insurances or pay taxes.

[twjones]

Some people don't get the license because they don't do work that requires it and they don't want to go through all of the work to get one. I have never worked in a situation where I needed my license (always worked for an oil/chemical company) but it is an excellent credential to have (never know when you may get downsized and have to work in a situation that requires the license). One of my former employers wanted at least half of their engineering staff to have their license and encouraged (paid all costs) for me to get my license so I did that and have maintained it since.

I'm in the same boat as you - I work in the oil industry. However, decided to get it because it doesn't hurt and you never know.