Attacking pit bull shot in League City

Reports of actual crimes and investigations, not hypothetical situations.

Moderators: carlson1, Keith B


lama
Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:25 pm

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#16

Post by lama » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:37 pm

I can find link after link of guns being used to kill or maim humans and dogs all over the US.
I can find link after link of people dying in car accidents involving Fords.
Whats your point?

Any animal large enough can injure or kill a person or similarly sized animal. You seem to be arguing that the chance is there, so the animal should not exist. I have seen a Labrador try to take a kids arm off. If the risk of something dangerous happening is reason enough for eradication then all dogs, nearly all farm animals, and most cats should cease to exist.

Pit Bulls attract a certain type of owner because of the stereotype and therefor the stereotype self fulfills, few could argue that point but that does not make the entire existence void.

I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't own a pit bull or particularly care to so I will leave it at that.


Abraham
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 8223
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:43 am

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#17

Post by Abraham » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:41 pm

"I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't own a pit bull or particularly care to so I will leave it at that."

Excellent!

User avatar

Pariah3j
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:03 pm
Location: Webster

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#18

Post by Pariah3j » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:05 pm

der Teufel wrote:
Pariah3j wrote:I'm of the mindset to blame the owner, not blame the breed.
I view it as a combination of ingredients. Maybe owners could/should do better at training and restraining their pit bulls. However, it seems that when there's a news account of a vicious dog attack, often a pit bull is involved.

I don't read many stories about poodles attacking people …
News media sensationalism and the current yellow 'journalism' that we get also would have us believe crime rates are skyrocketing and that those scary black guns are the problem. Not picking on you, just pointing out that even if a poodle viciously attacked someone, would it make headlines? Probably not.

If you take all of the comments about 'pit bulls' and replace it with 'large dog breed' because I believe that's more accurate. Any large dog can attack and maim and there is probably a story out there to back it up.

I own mini-schnauzers and wouldn't own a pit-bull myself, but that's because the breed doesn't interest me so I don't have a 'dog in the fight' so to speak - just a believer in owner responsibility.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


rotor
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 2969
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:26 pm

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#19

Post by rotor » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:17 pm

I am a dog lover but don't think we should ban pit bulls. I don't trust them and don't want to be near them though. They are doing what they were bred to do. Gentle ones are defective dogs. Some people want to have tigers in their homes. I am sure there are some very gentle tigers as well. At least exotics are controlled.
I don't blame the dog for doing what it was bred to do. I blame the human that doesn't control his dog. The worst neighbor I ever had was a woman with a Shiatsu that would constantly attack me every time I put the garbage out. The neighbor would do nothing to stop her dog. I told her that if the dog came onto my property again trying to get me it would be a dead dog. Fortunately the husband was cheating on his wife, got caught and they moved out before I was forced to kill that dog. Such is life.


OneGun
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 570
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:22 am
Location: Houston

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#20

Post by OneGun » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:22 pm

So, if the pit bull's owners have LTCs and they are cited for a Class C misdemeanor, can they lose their LTCs?
Annoy a Liberal, GET A JOB!

User avatar

Pariah3j
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:03 pm
Location: Webster

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#21

Post by Pariah3j » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:28 pm

OneGun wrote:So, if the pit bull's owners have LTCs and they are cited for a Class C misdemeanor, can they lose their LTCs?
I believe it has to be a Class B or above, and I think they have to be convicted first(someone correct me on this if I'm wrong)
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson

User avatar

bbhack
Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:34 pm
Location: San Antonio Area

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#22

Post by bbhack » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:38 pm

I consider it much more likely to have to use deadly force against a dog than a human. Is it a bad idea to fire a pocket 380 with Hornady Critical Defense with muzzle contact against a dog's neck?
NRA Life Member

User avatar

Liberty
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 5858
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Galveston
Contact:

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#23

Post by Liberty » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:20 pm

bbhack wrote:I consider it much more likely to have to use deadly force against a dog than a human. Is it a bad idea to fire a pocket 380 with Hornady Critical Defense with muzzle contact against a dog's neck?
I think its not a great Idea.

1: Muzzle contact may cause over pressure in the chamber.
2: Sounds like you would be getting your hands too close to the biting parts.
3: You would be giving the gun an opportunity to too not cycle properly, and perhaps push the slide back a little causing a dechambering of the round
Liberty''s Blog
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy

User avatar

anygunanywhere
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 6904
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:16 am
Location: La Grange, Texas

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#24

Post by anygunanywhere » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:21 pm

lama wrote:I can find link after link of guns being used to kill or maim humans and dogs all over the US.
I can find link after link of people dying in car accidents involving Fords.
Whats your point?

Any animal large enough can injure or kill a person or similarly sized animal. You seem to be arguing that the chance is there, so the animal should not exist. I have seen a Labrador try to take a kids arm off. If the risk of something dangerous happening is reason enough for eradication then all dogs, nearly all farm animals, and most cats should cease to exist.

Pit Bulls attract a certain type of owner because of the stereotype and therefor the stereotype self fulfills, few could argue that point but that does not make the entire existence void.

I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't own a pit bull or particularly care to so I will leave it at that.
Not the same thing.

A firearm is an inanimate object.

An animal is a living breathing creature capable of initiating acts on its own, regardless of how it is raised or treated. Did you read the link I posted????
1911s should be carried openly as God and John Moses Browning (PBUH) intended them to be.
III%

User avatar

bbhack
Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:34 pm
Location: San Antonio Area

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#25

Post by bbhack » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:04 pm

Liberty wrote:
bbhack wrote:I consider it much more likely to have to use deadly force against a dog than a human. Is it a bad idea to fire a pocket 380 with Hornady Critical Defense with muzzle contact against a dog's neck?
I think its not a great Idea.

1: Muzzle contact may cause over pressure in the chamber.
2: Sounds like you would be getting your hands too close to the biting parts.
3: You would be giving the gun an opportunity to too not cycle properly, and perhaps push the slide back a little causing a dechambering of the round
This would be against a dog that was fully engaged on someone else. I thought about over pressure. The purpose for the contact would be better control of where the bullet ends up, and to be a one-and-done operation. A sharp knife may be better in this case.
NRA Life Member

User avatar

RPBrown
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 4314
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:56 am
Location: Irving, Texas

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#26

Post by RPBrown » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:07 pm

rotor wrote:I am a dog lover but don't think we should ban pit bulls. I don't trust them and don't want to be near them though. They are doing what they were bred to do. Gentle ones are defective dogs. Some people want to have tigers in their homes. I am sure there are some very gentle tigers as well. At least exotics are controlled.
I don't blame the dog for doing what it was bred to do. I blame the human that doesn't control his dog. The worst neighbor I ever had was a woman with a Shiatsu that would constantly attack me every time I put the garbage out. The neighbor would do nothing to stop her dog. I told her that if the dog came onto my property again trying to get me it would be a dead dog. Fortunately the husband was cheating on his wife, got caught and they moved out before I was forced to kill that dog. Such is life.
I have seen at least 2 stories on dog attacks in Dallas which media said attacked by pit bulls did the attacking. Then they show a picture and 1 was a black lab and the other appeared to be a Colley mix with lots of hair. Sounds kinda like the scary black assault rifles and the bad rap they get to me.

"Pit Bulls" are actually American Bulldogs and were originally bred as babysitters and protectors. They gained the name "Pit Bull" because some unscrupulous people decided to use them as fighting dogs. If you train them properly fro a puppy they are great dogs.

We have a 12 year old American Bulldog that we have had since he was 8 months. We have a little mixed breed that is 8years old we have had since she was 14 months old and we have a Golden Retriever that is 4-1/2 years old that we have had for a year and a half. The only issue we've ever had was between the little mixed breed and the Golden and that was over a toy but quickly ended with the little one getting the toy.
Our grandkids have been with our scary black dog since they were very young and when they are here, no one else exists to our dogs
NRA-Benefactor Life member
TSRA-Life member
Image


rotor
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 2969
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:26 pm

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#27

Post by rotor » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:43 pm

RPBrown wrote:
rotor wrote:I am a dog lover but don't think we should ban pit bulls. I don't trust them and don't want to be near them though. They are doing what they were bred to do. Gentle ones are defective dogs. Some people want to have tigers in their homes. I am sure there are some very gentle tigers as well. At least exotics are controlled.
I don't blame the dog for doing what it was bred to do. I blame the human that doesn't control his dog. The worst neighbor I ever had was a woman with a Shiatsu that would constantly attack me every time I put the garbage out. The neighbor would do nothing to stop her dog. I told her that if the dog came onto my property again trying to get me it would be a dead dog. Fortunately the husband was cheating on his wife, got caught and they moved out before I was forced to kill that dog. Such is life.
I have seen at least 2 stories on dog attacks in Dallas which media said attacked by pit bulls did the attacking. Then they show a picture and 1 was a black lab and the other appeared to be a Colley mix with lots of hair. Sounds kinda like the scary black assault rifles and the bad rap they get to me.

"Pit Bulls" are actually American Bulldogs and were originally bred as babysitters and protectors. They gained the name "Pit Bull" because some unscrupulous people decided to use them as fighting dogs. If you train them properly fro a puppy they are great dogs.

We have a 12 year old American Bulldog that we have had since he was 8 months. We have a little mixed breed that is 8years old we have had since she was 14 months old and we have a Golden Retriever that is 4-1/2 years old that we have had for a year and a half. The only issue we've ever had was between the little mixed breed and the Golden and that was over a toy but quickly ended with the little one getting the toy.
Our grandkids have been with our scary black dog since they were very young and when they are here, no one else exists to our dogs
I quote from the wisdom of all things, a Google search.

Today's pit bull is a descendant of the original English bull-baiting dog—a dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. When baiting large animals was outlawed in the 1800s, people turned instead to fighting their dogs against each other.

There is no question that dogs have been trained for specific tasks. These tasks have become instinctual. Hunting dogs, herding dogs, etc. Pit Bulls were bred for fighting. That doesn't mean that all of them will instinctively fight. That doesn't mean all of them are dangerous. My little Boston Terrier was bred for grandma's lap (but originally as a lion hunter). My Corgi was bred to herd cattle. My Chihuahua was bred to terrorize my Boston and Corgi. The little Boston though is the only one that will go for snakes. Some animals have the fight gene turned on, some the fright gene. A Pit with the fight gene turned on needs a careful owner.


Rob72
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:08 am
Location: Gulf Coast

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#28

Post by Rob72 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:12 am

We saw the same thing in the 70s with Doberman Pincers. In the 80s with German Shepherds & Chows. Really, the issue is the breed(s) and the breedING. When breeds are distilled by heavy breeding, nothing good happens. Ever. Muscular, aggressive breeds, within 2-3 generations of in-breeding (about 1 year) will turn out litters with multiple behavioral and physical issues.

The problem with the majority of Pits, and many people, is that they have extremely limited impulse-control, consequential reasoning, and excitement-suppression ability.

User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 12151
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#29

Post by C-dub » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:58 am

I try not to get drawn into these dog discussions. Many of us here have had and been around dogs for many years and even decades and think we know quite a bit about dogs. Some do and some don't. Maybe I know more than some and maybe I don't. I did train dogs at a very high level for a sport called Schutzhund and also a couple variations of Mondioring Sport even going over to Belgium to train with some top level competitors and champions over there, but with far more emphasis on Schutzhund. I did this for about 15 years as a handler and helper/decoy/chew toy.

Lama has already mentioned the similarity to these type of generalizations about the most popular sporting rifle in the country, the AR. The same irrational generalizations have also been made about black people in the past and now police officers.

Anyway, a "pit bull" as I understand it did come about from crossbreeding with the American Bull Dog, but is still very different. The Pitbull is commonly referred to in the dog world as a poorly bred American Staffordshire Terrier or AmStaff for short. The American Bull Dog, only supposed to be a medium sized dog, is much larger than what an AmStaff/Pitbull is supposed to be.

This type of thing has gone on with dogs for a long time. Some of it is the raising and some of it is just plain poor breeding. It happened with the Dobermans back in the 70's after a couple movies came about about them. Then it happened again with the German Shepherd Dogs in the late 70's and into the 80's. It happened in the 90's with Rotties. The 2000's it began with the Pits. IMHO, it mostly came down to over breeding and poor breeding with little to no consideration of temperament of the sire and dam or any of the other ancestors further back in the lines. There is absolutely some truth that some of the problem is in the raising, but if you follow another old computer programmer's acronym (GIGO) then it'll make more sense. Garbage In - Garbage Out) Suffice it to say, that while I'm all in favor of our freedom to do as we please, I wish people would be more responsible in temperament testing dogs before breeding them.

I've owned Rotties and GSDs and currently have two GSDs that are tracking, obedience, and protection trained. They/we are retired from the sport, but still quite capable. I've trained many other breeds and learned many of the differences in each of their unique characteristics. The Pits are very good at what they were intended for and if that is ignored can and has been disastrous. That can never be ignored with any breed including the little Dachshund. A vicious little animal bred to go underground to flush out Badgers. Some still have it in them do accomplish that task.

Great, I'm old and have rambled on enough that I've forgotten where I was going with this when I started. Oh well, I'll post it anyway and maybe I'll remember it after more responses. :tiphat:
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.

NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member

User avatar

Pariah3j
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:03 pm
Location: Webster

Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#30

Post by Pariah3j » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:59 pm

:iagree: w/ what C-dub said - breed characteristics do tend to follow the bloodline when bred properly. And any of the bloodlines of multi-generation 'pit-bulls' that were bred for dog fighting rings are problematic. The problem is 'pit-bull' isn't a recognized breed, and any dog having even similar characteristics are lumped into the 'breed/category'. I guess that's where I have my problem, that and the witch-hunt/mob mentality of the whole 'pit-bulls' are evil.

The problem is a complex one, no one factor or thing can be pointed to as the whole of the problem. But personal responsibility is the one that I think as a society we should fall back on for this one. The onus is on the owner to know the dog's background and breed standards/characteristics. Along with that, to get proper training and socialization done and to properly exercise the dog. Any breed, but especially in medium to larger breeds, if they have more energy then what is being expended, personality/behavioral problems have a tendency to manifest themselves. These tend to manifest themselves in similar ways in a lot of dogs, aggression can be one of them. Even breeds not 'known' for an aggressive disposition can develop one if not raised and trained/taken care of properly.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson

Post Reply

Return to “The Crime Blotter”