Attacking pit bull shot in League City

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pcernuch
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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#31

Post by pcernuch » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:21 pm

lama wrote:I can find link after link of guns being used to kill or maim humans and dogs all over the US.
I can find link after link of people dying in car accidents involving Fords.
Whats your point?

Any animal large enough can injure or kill a person or similarly sized animal. You seem to be arguing that the chance is there, so the animal should not exist. I have seen a Labrador try to take a kids arm off. If the risk of something dangerous happening is reason enough for eradication then all dogs, nearly all farm animals, and most cats should cease to exist.

Pit Bulls attract a certain type of owner because of the stereotype and therefor the stereotype self fulfills, few could argue that point but that does not make the entire existence void.

I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't own a pit bull or particularly care to so I will leave it at that.

my thoughts exactly. We have pit. bad dogs, much like ill-behaved children are from lack of parenting. our dog sleeps at the foot of my sons bed between the door and Jr. He is a great dog, and Jr is a great kid. I would be lying to you if i didn't say i think both are good because there is no doubt whom the Alpha Dog is in our pack. Hint: he only has 2 legs.

god bless.


lama
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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#32

Post by lama » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:12 pm

anygunanywhere wrote:Not the same thing.

A firearm is an inanimate object.

An animal is a living breathing creature capable of initiating acts on its own, regardless of how it is raised or treated. Did you read the link I posted????
Yes I did. I see no form of referencing for where they got their numbers (did I miss it?). If, as I expect, it is through "journalistic" searches I will continue to take that with a block of salt. As others have mentioned trusting an article that says a dog attack was perpetrated by a pitbull is as logical as trusting an article that says an automatic rifle was used in a shooting.

They also state they extrapolate the number of attacks due to their "under reporting" "algebra" without mentioning if they did any research as to if the reporting of an attack done by a pitbull is more likely than reporting if a poodle attacks someone. (I expect there is at least some level of that, but like them I have no proof of that.) This seems to me to be a very significant oversight, that limits my trust in the data.

My response to inanimate objects: If everyone controlled their possessions in an effective and ethical manner we would see much fewer incidents of both dog attacks and unjustified shootings. The human intervention is an important and inescapable factor in both.


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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#33

Post by Abraham » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:28 pm

lama,

Ever been attacked by a Pit?

I have, more than once.

Remember the old saw that a Conservative is liberal whose been mugged?

I've not only been attacked by them, my daughter and I together have been attacked by them.

They are lethal animals that should never be exposed to the public anymore than letting a lion or tiger roam your neighborhood, but sure, I can see a protective attitude toward them, until it's your turn to be attacked by one...your mind set will change rapidly once you've that experience.

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anygunanywhere
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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#34

Post by anygunanywhere » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:30 pm

lama wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:Not the same thing.

A firearm is an inanimate object.

An animal is a living breathing creature capable of initiating acts on its own, regardless of how it is raised or treated. Did you read the link I posted????
Yes I did. I see no form of referencing for where they got their numbers (did I miss it?). If, as I expect, it is through "journalistic" searches I will continue to take that with a block of salt. As others have mentioned trusting an article that says a dog attack was perpetrated by a pitbull is as logical as trusting an article that says an automatic rifle was used in a shooting.

They also state they extrapolate the number of attacks due to their "under reporting" "algebra" without mentioning if they did any research as to if the reporting of an attack done by a pitbull is more likely than reporting if a poodle attacks someone. (I expect there is at least some level of that, but like them I have no proof of that.) This seems to me to be a very significant oversight, that limits my trust in the data.

My response to inanimate objects: If everyone controlled their possessions in an effective and ethical manner we would see much fewer incidents of both dog attacks and unjustified shootings. The human intervention is an important and inescapable factor in both.
If isn't ever going to happen.
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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#35

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:47 pm

Abraham wrote:lama,

Ever been attacked by a Pit?

I have, more than once.

Remember the old saw that a Conservative is liberal whose been mugged?

I've not only been attacked by them, my daughter and I together have been attacked by them.

They are lethal animals that should never be exposed to the public anymore than letting a lion or tiger roam your neighborhood, but sure, I can see a protective attitude toward them, until it's your turn to be attacked by one...your mind set will change rapidly once you've that experience.
Abraham - I think your personal experience and resulting bias might be (understandably) influencing your opinions on this subject.

I have been around dogs my entire life and I have been attacked by a number of them. Guess what, they were all different breeds. Mostly mutts, but a mix of breeds. All breeds are capable of attacking humans. Some seem to be more inclined to do so than others, but I personally think it is an overreach to say that all dogs or a specific breed should be locked behind bars like we would do for lions and tigers. And under the right circumstances all dogs can be lethal to an unprepared human. Again, some more than others.

My current dog is a mix between a Poodle and a Maltese. He is very protective of his territory and will bark like crazy when anyone gets in sight as he sits staring out the window. But he's a coward. As soon as a human or dog starts to approach him, he will run and hide behind me or my wife. To me, that is the perfect mix. He will definitely wake me up if anyone gets near the house but he is not likely to attack my kids or their friends.

As others have said, people need to take responsibility for all of the dangerous things they own. The typical adult owns a number of things that can kill if they are not careful with them (vehicles being a prime example). Dogs are just one of these things. Guns are another. If you own a dog breed that is generally more aggressive, you need to invest in proper training and also in properly securing your dog. Dogs are a lot like guns in that respect.
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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#36

Post by superstar » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:04 pm

If I can recall correctly, the 80's was the doberman, 90's rottweilers, 2000's presa canarios, 2010-today pitbulls. The pitbull breed can have a big litter, hence that's why you can see many of them in the kill shelters, try bringing one to a shelter and most likely they will tell you that they are full of that breed and if you drop the dog it will be put down if no one adopts them.

Another factor why you see many in the shelters is because of the owners, pitbulls are not for first time dog owners. That breed is constantly challenging to be the alpha and the owner/s need to understand all actions from the dog, from having the dog eat last after the humans to making sure when they go for walks they are either on the side or behind or a simple retreat from an owner if the dog jumps on you. if they start conceding the alpha position that's when trouble starts.

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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#37

Post by Pariah3j » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:17 pm

superstar wrote: Another factor why you see many in the shelters is because of the owners, pitbulls are not for first time dog owners. That breed is constantly challenging to be the alpha and the owner/s need to understand all actions from the dog, from having the dog eat last after the humans to making sure when they go for walks they are either on the side or behind or a simple retreat from an owner if the dog jumps on you. if they start conceding the alpha position that's when trouble starts.
Not a pit only problem, plenty of other breeds need an established 'alpha' or it can cause behavioral problems in them as well.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


superstar
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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#38

Post by superstar » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:24 pm

Pariah3j wrote:
Not a pit only problem, plenty of other breeds need an established 'alpha' or it can cause behavioral problems in them as well.
Yes, that's why I mentioned the other breeds in other decades. ;-) They are dogs with a purpose, if you take the purpose out then they need an outlet to vent... and that can be destructive...


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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#39

Post by lama » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:26 pm

My post apparently got lost in the internet.

I disagree abraham and anygunanywhere on the basis that if we decide that "lethal" is the standard for eradication then the world will be a different (and I would argue worse) place. I will leave it at that and wish you both the best.

One thing I will repeat from my post because who doesn't enjoy a fun quote.

I have heard the saying, and google tells me Tom Wolfe was the first to say "If a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged, a liberal is a conservative who's been arrested." (though I would probably use the word poor rather than arrested).


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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#40

Post by superstar » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:27 pm

pcernuch wrote:
lama wrote:I can find link after link of guns being used to kill or maim humans and dogs all over the US.
I can find link after link of people dying in car accidents involving Fords.
Whats your point?

Any animal large enough can injure or kill a person or similarly sized animal. You seem to be arguing that the chance is there, so the animal should not exist. I have seen a Labrador try to take a kids arm off. If the risk of something dangerous happening is reason enough for eradication then all dogs, nearly all farm animals, and most cats should cease to exist.

Pit Bulls attract a certain type of owner because of the stereotype and therefor the stereotype self fulfills, few could argue that point but that does not make the entire existence void.

I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't own a pit bull or particularly care to so I will leave it at that.

my thoughts exactly. We have pit. bad dogs, much like ill-behaved children are from lack of parenting. our dog sleeps at the foot of my sons bed between the door and Jr. He is a great dog, and Jr is a great kid. I would be lying to you if i didn't say i think both are good because there is no doubt whom the Alpha Dog is in our pack. Hint: he only has 2 legs.

god bless.
:iagree: :thumbs2:

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anygunanywhere
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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#41

Post by anygunanywhere » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:47 pm

lama wrote:My post apparently got lost in the internet.

I disagree abraham and anygunanywhere on the basis that if we decide that "lethal" is the standard for eradication then the world will be a different (and I would argue worse) place. I will leave it at that and wish you both the best.

One thing I will repeat from my post because who doesn't enjoy a fun quote.

I have heard the saying, and google tells me Tom Wolfe was the first to say "If a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged, a liberal is a conservative who's been arrested." (though I would probably use the word poor rather than arrested).
I am not a liberal and I have been arrested before. The facts around my prior arrests have helped mold my conservative views, especially pertaining to the fourth amendment.

My experiences also have molded my opinion on pit bulls.

My opinion on pit bulls in no way anvalidate my opinions on the 2A and the RKBA.

There is no right to own a dangerous beast and beasts do not have rights.
1911s should be carried openly as God and John Moses Browning (PBUH) intended them to be.
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lama
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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#42

Post by lama » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:10 am

anygunanywhere wrote:I am not a liberal and I have been arrested before. The facts around my prior arrests have helped mold my conservative views, especially pertaining to the fourth amendment.
So the second half of that saying is as wrong as the first. Who would have thought.


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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#43

Post by dino9832 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:58 am

I've given this debate some thought. Just food for thought as I'm going to swing back and forth on this.
1) Firearms are lethal.
2) Dogs (can be) lethal.

You don't hear about Chihuahua's attacking people because they just aren't very lethal. Despite what the Chihuahua might think!
Same holds for black guns vs. .22 single shot rifles.

People own firearms for protection. Also, for sport/fun.
Same applies to dogs.

Also keep in mind that:
Some firearms have a tendency to accidentally discharge. Despite manufacturers attempts to avoid these issues.
All firearms should be handled with proper gun safety protocols. Regardless of their safety record.

Some dogs have a tendency to be violent.
All dogs should be handled the same. Hey, dogs have bad days also!

One huge difference is (as someone stated before) dogs operate on their own. You can pull the bullets out of a firearm and store it. You can try storing (caging) a dog, but they can also work at getting out all day!

It's a difficult debate for sure. :headscratch People on both sides of the fence. The same holds true of firearm ownership.
This is a great debate, because it sheds some light on how anti-gun rights people might view the 2nd amendment.

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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#44

Post by tomneal » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:39 pm

I would hate to have been this police officer

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Pac ... 585196.php

It could have been a career ending injury to his pride;-)
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Re: Attacking pit bull shot in League City

#45

Post by rotor » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:57 pm

tomneal wrote:I would hate to have been this police officer

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Pac ... 585196.php

It could have been a career ending injury to his pride;-)
Standard Chihuahua behavior. If they were big dogs we wouldn't be talking about Pits. Last shelter dog we got was a Corgi. Jumped up on the couch and started cuddling with us. Tried to pet the Chihuahua that was for adoption and almost lost a finger. Corgi came home with us. Corgis are such ugly dogs but such a good dog.

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