FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

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LTUME1978
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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#46

Post by LTUME1978 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:45 pm

Combat Shooting and Tactics (Paul Howe) has a great 3 day class on Response to Active Shooters. It is NOT for the beginner. Most of the folks in the class when I took it were law enforcement (US Marshal, Federal Air Marshals, a number of SWAT and one Judge). Civilians were in the minority but are welcome if you can demonstrate proficiency before attending.

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ajwakeboarder
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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#47

Post by ajwakeboarder » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:09 pm

SewTexas wrote:somewhat related question.....a friend is posting memes that this is the "29th" school shooting of the year? Where can I find the truth?
Ben Shapiro just made an excellent video on this topic on his facebook page
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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#48

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:19 pm

ajwakeboarder wrote:
SewTexas wrote:somewhat related question.....a friend is posting memes that this is the "29th" school shooting of the year? Where can I find the truth?
Ben Shapiro just made an excellent video on this topic on his facebook page
Start by defining the term "school shooting".

This is like every other term that the democrats have attempted to distort. They just expand the scope of terms to the point that those terms have no meaning whatsoever. To take just one example, if everyone you disagree with is a racist, then is racism even a bad thing anymore?

It's no wonder that congress can't agree on anything when its impossible to even talk to half of the people there because we no longer share a common understanding of key terminology.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#49

Post by SewTexas » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:32 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
ajwakeboarder wrote:
SewTexas wrote:somewhat related question.....a friend is posting memes that this is the "29th" school shooting of the year? Where can I find the truth?
Ben Shapiro just made an excellent video on this topic on his facebook page
Start by defining the term "school shooting".

This is like every other term that the democrats have attempted to distort. They just expand the scope of terms to the point that those terms have no meaning whatsoever. To take just one example, if everyone you disagree with is a racist, then is racism even a bad thing anymore?

It's no wonder that congress can't agree on anything when its impossible to even talk to half of the people there because we no longer share a common understanding of key terminology.
There you go trying to make sense and all..... :thumbs2:
I've just given up trying to hold a conversation with anyone about anything other than maybe going out and buying groceries....and maybe my corgis....
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Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir


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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#50

Post by philip964 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:39 pm

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/browa ... story.html

Article that sums up what they know so far.

Shooter has confessed to police.

Took Uber to the school.

My Facebook news feed is filled with congress has to do something posts.

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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#51

Post by Pawpaw » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:59 pm

The Deadliest School Massacre in American History Is a Bombing...from 1927
In the aftermath of Wednesday's deadly school shooting in Parkland, Florida, politicians and pundits alike are using the tragedy as an opportunity to push for gun control legislation and demonize anyone who opposes such laws as evil, inhuman monsters solely motivated by NRA lobbying dollars. Given the immediate climate of scaremongering, it's worth pointing out that to this day, the deadliest school massacre in United States history was committed not with a gun, but a bomb.

On May 18th, 1927, the last day of classes at the only school in the small town of Bath, Michigan was interrupted by a deadly explosion. Hundreds of pounds of carefully planted dynamite tore apart the north wing of the school's main building, killing dozens of students and two teachers. Ten children aged eight or younger were among those who died in the initial blast:
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#52

Post by TexasJohnBoy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:40 pm

This article really hit home for me. It's up to each and every one of us to take the safety of ourselves, our loved ones, and our fellow men and women seriously. And I don't just mean 'us' as in Pro2A people alone, I mean 'us' as in Americans and human beings.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... people-can

I sincerely hope that if I were put in this type of situation, I would have the reaction of Aaron Feis, Peter Wang, Scott Beigel, Melissa Falkowski and the other men and women who sheltered others and assisted others escaping the situation.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/15/fl ... nfire.html
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/flori ... index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/teach ... index.html

We need to remember the men and women who responded to tragedy with a level head and helped people escape and survive. We need to remember the first responders who ran into the school not knowing what was around the corner.
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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#53

Post by stroo » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:19 pm

We really need to harden schools. Doors need to be locked to the outside, security guards need to be armed and staff who are willing to be trained and carry concealed must be allowed to do so. This is the only way to stop or limit school shootings.

We have known this since at least Sandy Hook. The fact that schools are not required to take these simple steps is outrageous!

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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#54

Post by oljames3 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:09 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
oljames3 wrote:I took the course at KR Training in December, 2017, and have my certificate. In addition to the other things I learned in the 18 hour course, I have shown I can achieve over 90% on the Texas LTC course of fire, pass the DPS Shooting Under Duress exercise, and pass the shooting course for a major Texas city police department.

This training seems applicable to businesses and churches, as well as school districts.

Karl Rehn is presenting the class again March 12-13 in Conroe, Texas. https://www.saddleriverrange.com/traini ... -training/
I'm confused about this class. I looked at the class listing and it states that it involves drawing from a holster, using a concealment garment, shooting from cover, and a 50 rd. shooting under duress segment. None of these are in the official DPS SSC course and the Shooting Under Duress segment is 120 rds, not 50. DPS expressly prohibits deviating from the specified proficiency drills as noted in the following statement, "The course of fire must be current, as provided by the Department of Public Safety. No alteration of the course of fire is allowed."

Did the course you attended follow the format set out in Karl's current course description?

Chas.
I'm not sure how many rounds we fired during the duress shooting. I was a long course. I fired 318 rounds over the two days of the class. Karl said we fired more than required. I'll ask about the description.
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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#55

Post by Liberty » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:35 am

stroo wrote:We really need to harden schools. Doors need to be locked to the outside, security guards need to be armed and staff who are willing to be trained and carry concealed must be allowed to do so. This is the only way to stop or limit school shootings.

We have known this since at least Sandy Hook. The fact that schools are not required to take these simple steps is outrageous!
Not to make excuses, but school budgets are pretty stretched these days. Watching political comericials this year and I learn that only 30% of our school taxes go to teachers salaries. That budgets are stressed because the Texas Lege has cut funding . But the same people are blaming other politicians and the same old people that broke the system are promising to fix it. Just like they promised the year before and the year before and ... Taxpayers are claiming that they have reached their breaking point. How far are we willing to go? Income Taxes? Increased Sales taxes on top of the rediculaously high taxes we pay now?

Getting a good grip on security is like getting a grip on a handful of water.

This incident happened at the end of the day. kids were leaving early via many exits. It's pretty easy for a dirtbag to go into an outdoor. Limiting egress is a terrible idea that gets people killed in fires and massacres like at Vegas. Open campus with outdoor hallways means the school was sprawling. They had one security guy. To fix this they probably need to hire 4 or 5 more security people. maybe permanently secure some doors. Probably need to raise taxes more or fire more teachers.

We stumble around, but its time we stop restricting firearms into government buildings. There is absolutely no reason to restrict the most law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves in the killing field known as "gunfree zones" We shouldn't require special training or extra security type clearance. If we are licensed to carry into our city's into our parks and playgrounds than we should be good enough to carry into our schools. I am pretty sure that the state's record of throwing money at an issue after a disaster usually doesn't work out like we indeed. The state and local government can't cut taxes and increase spending like the Feds do. We gotta pay for the things.
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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#56

Post by TreyHouston » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:30 am

In Houston, our tax dollars go to make $200 million high school football stadiums like in Katy! One would think that wouod be enough to get some extra security at schools, but districts say no....
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#57

Post by crazy2medic » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:00 am

stroo wrote:We really need to harden schools. Doors need to be locked to the outside, security guards need to be armed and staff who are willing to be trained and carry concealed must be allowed to do so. This is the only way to stop or limit school shootings.

We have known this since at least Sandy Hook. The fact that schools are not required to take these simple steps is outrageous!
:iagree: you meet force with force, every school that does not have armed people able to meet a deranged shooter is complicit in his crime!
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention


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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#58

Post by crazy2medic » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:06 am

Every sunday I sit in the back of a local church, my sole task there is to watch the door and provide an armed presence! We need this for our schools, for small districts that can't afford armed security guards they should be able to have volunteers that are trained and prepared to meet a threat! The laws need to change!
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#59

Post by dlh » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:08 am

I heard there was an armed deputy---somewhere. Did not see any report where he/she was when the shooting began. If it was a huge school then obviously more than one armed deputy/teacher was needed.

There is now a time-line of some of the events as they unfolded. One over at Fox News has a response time of about 32 minutes from the time the first shot was fired until the police got there. That has to be unacceptable. When seconds count the police are just 32 minutes away....sad.

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Re: FL: Active shooter at high school in South Florida

#60

Post by Middle Age Russ » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:22 am

A couple of things already noted by others...

Too many people (not likely to be any of these folks who post here) abdicate responsibility for their personal safety, and happily go about their business trusting that others will protect them. The plain truth is that these others are very seldom in a position to protect them when that protection is needed and aren't under any legal obligation to do so even if they are there. If more folks really took responsibility for their personal safety, perhaps enough warning signs might sometimes be noted and preventative action taken.

Schools are ill-funded and ill-equipped to meet force with force. Hardening schools takes money and expertise that in turn cannot be spent on education. Heaven only knows how much we need real education (or how ill-equipped public schools are to provide it). Perhaps there are things that can be done to provide for an armed response by school personnel, but too often debate on such issues is shut down by knee-jerk emotional interjections.

One thing that we as a society haven't pursued in more recent, supposedly civilized times that might be something of a deterrent is expedited open public executions in cases such as this. The killer has confessed. There is plentiful evidence that he did it. The crimes committed are horrendous. Permanent removal from society, with prejudice, seems appropriate. That this might serve as an example for others that fleeting 'fame' could come with a terrible cost might be a good thing.
Russ
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